Forum

Quoted from crzfst

[…]
CS doesn’t have 9 classes with 6 different weapons to each, stuns and crits.

So really your problem is you’re playing a game that’s designed for pub play, competitively?

I don’t have any problem, i am just saying that you can’t compare CS to TF2 when talking about banning weapons and etc. I think you are mad bro.

Quoted from crzfst

I don’t have any problem, i am just saying that you can’t compare CS to TF2 when talking about banning weapons and etc. I think you are mad bro.

whoever says you are mad bro first is mad

Quoted from kuma

This is my take:

[…]
Whatever is most effective at that point in time.

[…]
To narrow the divide between pub and comp. Most successful comp games keep the format of pub play fairly similar to that of the comp side. See BW/SC2, Dota/Hon, Quake duels, etc. Even CS keeps the weapons used between pub and comp the same.

[…]
Too many artificial restrictions.

[…]
It’s easier for a pub player to progress to the comp side of the game, and they arguably have more fun with it. If they have fun in a pub, they’d have fun in comp.

FAIL

So i should have less fun to remove the gap between pub and comp. So i was right in my first post. We just lower the overall skill of competitive in the direction of the pubbers. We therefore remove skill/strategy/teamwork/fun of the game for the fun of some shitters that play on the public.

/facepalm

I will make a more detailed response then:

Quoted from kuma

This is my take:

[…]
Whatever is most effective at that point in time.

But the setup of soldiers, demoman, scouts is effective now? So this isnt really an answer.

To narrow the divide between pub and comp. Most successful comp games keep the format of pub play fairly similar to that of the comp side. See BW/SC2, Dota/Hon, Quake duels, etc. Even CS keeps the weapons used between pub and comp the same.

Why do we need to narrow the divide between pub and comp. The reason they are different is because there are different needs. Some wants to play casual and one time a week. Other wants to do it competitive and wants to play two hours everyday. Moreover, the format between comp and pub is the same. We allow all classes, even in most pub server i dont see crits anymore. Moreover, what might work for one game doesnt work for others. TF2 is a quiet unique game with its classes, so balance is a point of interest in our game while it isnt in other games for example. The mindset you are thinking is the following. In CS i saw a pub players who never bought a weapon, he only killed players with his knife and glock. This strategy isnt used in competive. While still these weapons are there. Why not change the whole CS game so everyone who wants to play knife/glock-only can still be succesfull. How this relates to TF2, if a pyro is usefull on pub, but it isnt on comp scene, we need to change the whole TF2 dynamics to still make pyro usefull in comp matches. An absurd reasoning.

Too many artificial restrictions.

Whats the problem with that if we found a balance where we can have fun?

It’s easier for a pub player to progress to the comp side of the game, and they arguably have more fun with it. If they have fun in a pub, they’d have fun in comp.

We are in a competitive community. Making decisions based on players who arent in our community doesnt make sense. Thats the reason where you go wrong. And if people have fun on public, why would they play in competitive. I wouldnt, because its way easier to find a random pub. You should search for the people that are tired to play pubs and are ready for a challenge. Those players make the competitive community richer.

I think we can lock this, waster just won this argument.

Quoted from kuma

[…]

It doesn’t have to ruin your fun if the classes were designed in a way they were viable.

Should they be?

It’s a good thing to have a cookie cutter setup that’s good for most occasions (2 sollys, 2 scouts, 1 med, 1 demo). It gets so much easier to organise mix games and pickups when you have a standard lineup to fall back on. Most decent competitive games have a setup like this… like 1 scope, 2 ar and 2 smg in COD4. 2 def/2 attack in Q3/QL ctf (although this is simplifying things a bit)

The utility classes in TF2 are just that, utility classes, they are very good at what they do but they have a hard time being effective to 100% during a competitive match. This is normal, some classes like spy basically gets more and more useless the more organised the enemy team is. You rarely see a spy do something else than pick the medic, or possibly get rid of a sentry that’s hard to take down. For the spy to be as effective as a scout, demo or soldier during a game it would take a lot of redesigning of the class, which quite frankly isn’t needed.

In comes the unlocks. Do they help the class to make it more viable in competitive play, make it a better all around class? Some of them perhaps, but the large majority of them add nothing to the game and only makes that particular class so much less fun to play against. The direct hit for example is not that terribly unbalanced, but it has less than satisfactory effects – being instagibbed as a scout/sniper/spy at mid range isn’t fun, being hit by random dh spam across the map hurts a lot more than it should… not to mention dealing with a soldier with dh in general, he has a much easier time to airshot you AND you’ll take ridiculous damage as well. If an explosion lifts you 1 mm up into the air a dh rocket will suddenly make you take 130 damage right in the face. It’s random and boring to play against.

Then there are unlocks that actually do help that particular class, like the equalizer or bonk. While the game isn’t bad without them, it’s a shame to ban them.

Medic weapons + bonk + equalizer + jarate perhaps?

Quoted from Tikcus

wasters argument is retarded, in css he is allowed to use anything he wants to, he chooses not to.

In TF2 he is forced to use certain weapons and in a certain setup, because 1 person decided that was ‘FUN’ .

At least in CSS he has a choice

This,

It’s not that we want every unlock to be available. Natasha is op and so is the DH and if they were unbanned then the meta game would suck.

But neglecting unlocks that don’t unbalance the game like gunboats is stupid.
Right now were on the money with unlocks, allow the use of gunboats and were in a sweet spot.

But when polycount come’s out we need to sift through the mass’s of fail weapons and find some that will evolve and contribute to the current metagame, Not just plainly reject them.

No other game has to put up with monthly update’s but we keep treating it like a bad thing, what we get that these other game’s don’t get is a constantly changing and evolving meta game, that’s if we roll with it instead of trying to reset back to 2008 which is a giant waste of half the damn game.