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Quoted from Waster

Maybe you should read my post again. But you can also try to beat me with some very good suggestions for the utility class which preserves class balance, skill, strategy, teamwork. Because what i am saying, there is none, thats how logic work. Because if you define a pyro as a weird guy with a mask with a flamethrower in his hands, meant for short range harrasment, the outcome is he fails horribly in a competitive enverinmont. Or you have to change your definition of fun or the definition of what a pyro is. But otherwise there is no way to make him more usefull, thats what i am saying.

And I agree

In the current set up a pyro is off little to no use, but if you want to involve a pyro in competitive games, or any other utility class, you can’t change the role of the class.

You’d need to change the rules of the game, and not allow 2 soldiers, or 2 scouts (CL1).

As long as 2 soldiers, and 2 scouts are allowed teams will always run 2 soldiers and 2 scouts, as soon as demo limit was changed to 1 all those years ago, soldiers and scouts became OP

Quoted from Waster

The conclusion is that making utility classes more usefull results in redefining classes or nerfing soldiers/demoman/scouts which ultimately leads to a less competitive environment and less skill/strategy/teamwork. Which again results in less fun (at least my definition of fun).

If you read my post carefully, I’m actually agreeing with you. “We” the community should not ban or limit anything at all, as whatever is effective will become the norm, until someone clever thinks up a counter using all the tools in the box.

Kinda like broodwar or the new sc2 units you mean? Or more like the 2 smaller expansion packs they are gonna add to sc2?

Quoted from Norrland3000

[…]

Like the idea but i don’t think thats the way to do it. It will be even more easy to take last on badlands as an example, people can just jump up to spire, change to sniper, kill medic, jump up change to soldier.

I think that would be to good. Maybe if you have to go back two caps? if you have Spire you can go to middle and change class. Sure like the idea.

EDIT: Or if you just have changed class you can’t do it again until you are dead. That would also work.

Or when you swap class you get sent back to spawn, as if you were spawn swapping now? Slows any abuse right down but it’s faster than running back to spawn repeatedly.

Quoted from RaCio

[…]

Maybe a thing that could be looked at is easier switching of classes. So it will be easier to switch to spy when you need a pick or switch to pyro when there is an opening for harassment. Because at the moment you either need to suicide a player or run all the way back to the last point.

Example solution: Whenever you stand on a capture point you own and you switch class it will switch to that class after 5 seconds of standing still. Damage will interupt the process.

I don’t like that idea, it shouldn’t be a 5 second fix to counter a heavy, sniper or whatever, if you are attacking you have faster respawn, and you would only suicide a player if needed, and all the way back to last takes longer than it takes to suicide a player (granted badlands you have forward respawn unlocked, so not so far to go).

If you are defending it takes no time to go into span and change class.

The only way i’d like to see class changes anywhere, would be in the MW2 style of the one man army perk, to be able to change class/load out at any point you need to give up a weapon (probably mele) to do so, theren it becomes a tactical decision to run a player with one weapon less for this ability

Quoted from Norrland3000

[…]

Like the idea but i don’t think thats the way to do it. It will be even more easy to take last on badlands as an example, people can just jump up to spire, change to sniper, kill medic, jump up change to soldier.

Well, changing to heavy while defending spire might be more annoying, but then again, you could just switch to sniper to counter him.

I don’t think fast access to pick classes is something bad, the odds of getting a med pick are certainly not 100%. Especially not on badlands.

you forget the huge amount of players that play competitive tf2 because they hate the public style of play

Quoted from skinnie

you forget the huge amount of players that play competitive tf2 because they hate the public style of play

Yeah I’m one of them. But there are more of them than there are of us.