Forum
Unlock Dilemma
Created 30th June 2012 @ 12:18
Add A Reply Pages: « Previous 1 2 3 4 ... 9 Next »
Quoted from AnimaL
i agree, unlocks dont need to change, ppl need to realise that tf2 with unlocks just plain sucks
Americans, Australians and highlander types would disagree, (you know, those scenes that are growing, unlike our own 6v6), as would a lot of people considering playing competitively but yet to make the step, as do quite a few people already playing 6v6..just sayin’
Last edited by Monkeh,
Quoted from AnimaL
[…]i agree, unlocks dont need to change, ppl need to realise that tf2 with unlocks just plain sucks
“Stop liking what i don’t like!”
Quoted from sidestep
[…]
“Stop liking what i don’t like!”
That arguement works both ways, it’s also pretty much how this unlock debate will play out as we get closer to the next season :P
EU 6v6 is in decline where other scenes are growing plus that fact that EU highlander is growing as well and it seems to me we HAVE to at least consider change.
Less pub players converting to 6v6 = dead game sooner than we all want.
If we stop having rules that make a lot of pub players think that 6v6 is boring or full of elitist pricks that won’t let me play with my gunboats then we’ll see more come to play 6v6 as well as highlander.
Universal profit.
It seems we would lose some players initially from unlock rage quits, but we’d have a better drip-drip IN of players at the other end…shuffle along please everyone.
ETF2L as i’ve said before need to create an unlocks council. Not just prem players, but intelligent players who understand how each unlock will affect the game. Even invite an american for them to explain why they allow unlocks and how the mechanics work.
Have a solid discussion and come up with a list of unlocks that will benefit the game, open it up to more tactics, open it up to interest newer players to give it a try. However what we dont want is an influx of a ton of unlocks that will just make the game random and unable to counter the 1000 plays that could be made.
People are scared of change. People who are currently good at tf2 may not want to have to relearn the way they play.
But seriously….. i don’t understand how people can still play badlands vanilla after 4-5 years and still enjoy it.
If we’re going to allow unlocks, let the council make an informed and educated decision on what should be used, if we’re not going to use unlocks just lock all these useless threads and continue playing vanilla for another few years until the game dies.
The poll that Crasp made i hope will just be used informationally, as even when ETF2L allowed us to pick maps based on a public vote everyone started crying because freight or obscure was chosen.
Last edited by Tapley ❤,
Just want to say that I don’t think unlocks are the reason that EU TF2 is not growing, there are a whole host of other reasons why this is not the case.
Now if you want to argue for unlocks based on balance/new ideas etc, go ahead, but I really don’t think it will change the influx of people.
(If you are interested this is why NA is growing:
Streams
Newbie mix
Smaller community, so easier to grow
Asia and OZ don’t have HL it a big way, so most people wanting to go into comp go into 6v6, also smaller communities.
If you want to actually fucking help TF2 EU grow then do something.
Things to do:
Help with Newbie Mix Group, I got tired with being the only 6v6 player trying to organise stuff, fucking help me and don’t w8 for me to ask you to do something.
Get streams out there, NA has so many and it helps, top players: looking at you.
ETF2L Newcomer Cup, with decent prize might work)
Anyways unlocks can be argued for, just not on the grounds of increase player base.
Also, fuck process, that is a piece of shit map that should go and die.
P.S
I was crying about frieght and obscure because I called it would happen. When people are given a choice between something they know, even if it is not very good and something they don’t know, they will go with the thing they know.
This means that a map that has been in a previous season will 90% of the time be picked over a map that is awesome, but only been tested in a cup. It is a stupid system as it is obvious the outcome before you do the poll.
Last edited by CrashSite,
Quoted from CrashSite
Just want to say that I don’t think unlocks are the reason that EU TF2 is not growing, there are a whole host of other reasons why this is not the case.
Can you explain why highlander is taking off massively during the same time 6v6 has declined then?
Classes and maps might be involved here, but so are unlock rules, no question.
Quoted from Monkeh
[…]
Can you explain why highlander is taking off massively during the same time 6v6 has declined then?
Classes and maps might be involved here, but so are unlock rules, no question.
Hardly. At the same time as we held the HCC there were a lot of people clamoring for Highlander being “true” TF2 due to having 1 of every class, which is what a lot of people still believe. The unlocks help, yeah, but they’re not the main reason for HL taking off.
I personally really enjoy vanilla tf2 and wouldn’t want it to be changed., but wouldn’t quit if certain unlocks were allowed like boston basher
Quoted from Monkeh
[…]
Can you explain why highlander is taking off massively during the same time 6v6 has declined then?
Classes and maps might be involved here, but so are unlock rules, no question.
Very new, things at the start tend to grow fast, the 6v6 scene was not growing very fast at all, so HL detracted from that, combined with people leave the scene and no growth, that is what will happen.
HL is also super popular in NA, but the reason we aren’t seeing the same thing is that NA has steams, newbie mixes and what I feel is a better relationship between 6v6/HL. Now I might be wrong, but I would like evidence supporting your claim, burden of proof etc.
Also I pooped in a chinese toilet today, felt like I should share this. Was kinda weird as you have to squat.
Your welcome for that mental image btw.
Last edited by CrashSite,
Quoted from Buffalo Bill
The unlocks help, yeah, but they’re not the main reason for HL taking off.
Nowhere did I say they were the main reason, just another reason. Every reason we can find that is a blockade to new players joining a 6v6 team should be looked at.
The amount of times I hear moaning from new players on tf2lobby when they realise they can’t use whatever unlock is ridiculous, and a lot more than when they are told they can’t play full-time spy. I never hear them complain about playing badlands.
Quoted from CrashSite
Now I might be wrong, but I would like evidence supporting your claim, burden of proof etc.
I have no proof, but then no-one who has argued about this in the past has any solid proof that their way of thinking is correct. I’m looking at trends and trying to explain them with how my experiences of playing with new players, (which are extensive) fit in with what we’re seeing in sign ups.
Opinions aren’t facts.
I have definitely come round to the idea of allowing some unlocks, (gunboats, escape plan, boston basher, quick fix), that would make the game a whole lot more interesting and fresh without destroying the gameplay we all love.
Last edited by Monkeh,
Quoted from Monkeh
[…]
…
I have definitely come round to the idea of allowing some unlocks, (gunboats, escape plan, boston basher, quick fix), that would make the game a whole lot more interesting and fresh without destroying the gameplay we all love.
Well that bit is fine, you an argue on that point all you like, I would just be careful with the: it will bring in more people argument. I was explaining the trends in a different way.
ANnnnnnnnnnnyways, I know no one gives a shit, but can we please get this scene growing, it is not even that fucking hard, and in most cases is actually fun, if you are actually incapable of doing something off your own back, I can give you a job to do if you add me, I am in China so got free time to manage people, although will be at fucked up times.
TL:DR
Help the scene grow, doing something and if u can’t think of anything, contact me and I will give you something to do.
Quoted from Monkeh
[…]
Nowhere did I say they were the main reason, just another reason. Every reason we can find that is a blockade to new players joining a 6v6 team should be looked at.
The amount of times I hear moaning from new players on tf2lobby when they realise they can’t use whatever unlock is ridiculous, and a lot more than when they are told they can’t play full-time spy. I never hear them complain about playing badlands.
The blockade that prevents people from joining can easily be summarised with “everything”. 5CP only, no unlocks and can’t run Spy/Sniper/Pyro/Engi/Heavy fulltime are the most common reasons. Allowing unlocks will do fuck all except immediately drive people without replacing them.
Are you serious Crashsite? There’s people streaming their games constantly, there’s VanillaTV matchups, and they’re advertised on Reddit and whatever beforehand.
You people have to stop being in such serious denial. Our unlock rules are shit, our map pool is shit. Stop being such pussies because a bunch of players are gonna leave if you change something. There’s hardly anyone “of value” who hasn’t left already anyway.
Name 3 Prem players in teams who stream, who’s streams get more than 100 views. Look at NA so many top players stream and people watch the shit out of them.
You can argue for unlocks on other issues, I just think that one is false, by thinking that unlocks will solve it, we are not doing the things that WILL get the scene to grow, so it will die either way.
Also it is worth saying again, fuck Process with a pointy stick.
Maps have shit all to do with it, if you took the time to look on SPUF and respond like I do, you will see that the pubbers want PL maps and dustbowl maps. It was pointed out to them that NA uses KOTH and the response was: “that is still only like 2 modes”. So I would advise doing research before popping off.
Last edited by CrashSite,
Add A Reply Pages: « Previous 1 2 3 4 ... 9 Next »
content rss