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Unlock Dilemma
Created 30th June 2012 @ 12:18
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This still going on?
Man, get off the forum start reaching out to public players if you care about making the scene grow.
Stop whining all the time, having endless and pointless debates which don’t achieve anything but wasting hours of your life.
Just play the game cos it is fun, if it isn’t don’t play the game. Life doesn’t have to be this hard.
Quoted from Hildreth
This still going on?
Man, get off the forum start reaching out to public players if you care about making the scene grow.
Stop whining all the time, having endless and pointless debates which don’t achieve anything but wasting hours of your life.
Just play the game cos it is fun, if it isn’t don’t play the game. Life doesn’t have to be this hard.
To be fair that is what I said <3
Just played a doublemix with no whitelist and it was the funnest mix I’ve ever played, the problem with a lot of people is they LET the unlocks annoy them. Everyone was having a good time, there was demos bombing, soldiers trying out stunts, everyone trying out new tactics, it felt very fresh. Most of the unlocks where in actual fact no broken, or in fact annoying.
I really like the idea of an unlocks committee/council within ETF2L as Tapley has suggested and I would love to contribute or be apart of it as well… but I’d imagine everyone would like to be on the lovely panel of power that gets to decide how the entirety of europe play.
Last edited by TurboTabs,
Quoted from Buffalo Bill
The blockade that prevents people from joining can easily be summarised with “everything”. 5CP only, no unlocks and can’t run Spy/Sniper/Pyro/Engi/Heavy fulltime are the most common reasons. Allowing unlocks will do fuck all except immediately drive people without replacing them.
They aren’t stopped running ‘utility’ classes all the time. If someone makes a team that runs 2 spies and a heavy full time and they go play div 6 and have a whole load of fun then that’s good isn’t it? Maybe a few of them will realise the flaws of their decision and move onwards and upwards, maybe all of them.
I remember a team called Oceanic six who played with a heavy most of the time, (Oh hey Alx), they made it work.
You say unlocks are part of the problem and then say changing them will do fuck all…how does that make sense?
Playing only 5CP maps, (+ G’Pit btw :p, another reason why we HAVE to keep it in the mapool), should be looked at and is easy to fix, bring in a KOTH map, keep g’pit, boom, 3 play modes are go. Maybe there’s room for CTF in some way or another too, maybe even payload or dustbowl, but I would think the map choices are the least of things to stop people starting 6v6. Key phrase there is starting, how many pubbers have spent hours and hours on badlands?
I’m not talking about free-for-all unlocks. I’m talking about a few that would bring fresh ideas, tactics, spectators and players to our scene.
Quoted from TurboTabs
I really like the idea of an unlocks committee/council within ETF2L as Tapley has suggested and I would love to contribute or be apart of it as well… but I’d imagine everyone would like to be on the lovely panel of power that gets to decide how the entirety of europe play.
http://etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-21858/page-1/?recent=393010
Last edited by Monkeh,
Annnnnnnnd this is the point I start getting worried, when people start talking about _pl maps…
Instead of actually helping tf2, it has got to be the rules, it couldn’t be the fact that NA does a load to reach out to pubbers, it has to pubbers not liking the rules.
If you wanna bring pubbers into ETF2L, do what the Romanians did: Make a doublemix group within the various European TF2 communities that you’re part of, teach them the basics of 6v6, and host doublemix nights every few days or so. Just check the results: there were 5 Romanian teams this season.
Before you do the obvious and point me to the Newbie Mix Group, that’s stupid. People are reluctant to go play an entirely new thing with strangers, especially when they’re in mumble and it’s something like 6v6 where one mistake could cost a whole game. It’s enough for one ill-tempered shithead to start getting mad and that person won’t play anymore. People wanna try out new things with their friends, and once they gain a bit of confidence in themselves, they’ll move up to the next level.
For example: does UKCS have a doublemix group? Is anyone trying to bring people from UKCS to competitive TF2? What about saigns.de? It’s not that hard guys.. all you need to do is use those round things you carry on your shoulders. They’re not there JUST to prevent rain from getting in your throat you know…
Last edited by Ghostface,
The newbie mix group was a massive success. At it’s height we were doing 17 or 18 mixes A DAY.
Please don’t talk about something you obviously know very little about as if you’re an expert.
It slowed down over time as the mentors got back to playing with their teams again and I went back to full time work and had a lot less spare time. The premiss is still sound and we made it very clear, in big capital bold letters on the front page of the steam group, that no rage was allowed.
It worked a treat and we had at least 4 new teams full of newbie mixers in season 10, plus a lot of guys who found their own teams as well after enjoying the whole experience immensely.
So yeah, I will mention something obvious like the newbie mix group…it was da bomb and can still be da bomb at getting people involved and interested.
That didn’t really answer my question Monkeh.
Also how’s your precious newbie mix group doing now?
I wasn’t trying to answer your questions matey, I was trying to make you realise that the newbie mix group is/was in no way a ‘stupid’ way to get people into comp TF2. It worked a treat and can still work a treat.
How’s it now? Still going, 2 mixes yesterday I believe. Why is not getting bigger and stronger? Because people like yourself can’t be arsed helping out.
Last edited by Monkeh,
I’m helping out the Romanian community, because I sustain my theory. Every day I’m teaching these people things about the game, so don’t go around accusing me that I’m not helping out.(a few of which have played in the newbie mix group for a while, until it died out)
If people would just manage their own kin, then the newbie mix group wouldn’t even be necessary(I’m not saying we should abolish it). But a lot of people from the Romanian community have told me that it’s a lot more fun and comfortable for them to play with their own friends and kind rather than others. Eventually they’re going to branch out(some already tried/did), but until then they’re just enjoying the game.
Also, I never said the Newbie Mix Group is a “stupid” way to get people into the game. I was saying that countering my theory with the Newbie Mix Group is a stupid argument.
Quoted from Ghostface
If you wanna bring pubbers into ETF2L, do what the Romanians did: Make a doublemix group within the various European TF2 communities that you’re part of, teach them the basics of 6v6, and host doublemix nights every few days or so. Just check the results: there were 5 Romanian teams this season.
Before you do the obvious and point me to the Newbie Mix Group, that’s stupid. People are reluctant to go play an entirely new thing with strangers, especially when they’re in mumble and it’s something like 6v6 where one mistake could cost a whole game. It’s enough for one ill-tempered shithead to start getting mad and that person won’t play anymore. People wanna try out new things with their friends, and once they gain a bit of confidence in themselves, they’ll move up to the next level.
For example: does UKCS have a doublemix group? Is anyone trying to bring people from UKCS to competitive TF2? What about saigns.de? It’s not that hard guys.. all you need to do is use those round things you carry on your shoulders. They’re not there JUST to prevent rain from getting in your throat you know…
I really didn’t remember this but EU scene has a big difference which is the language and country barrier, so a new guy to get into comp is hard to start out of nothing on a english speaking team if it’s not his first language.
We had something amazing in Portugal which was the start of a national community run league, and while it didn’t end up working completely, it did spawn various new tf2 teams with players who never even touched 6vs6, I would say about 6-7 new Portuguese teams, and that’s a lot in our scene, I was one of those players to get into it. We are doing about 3-4 mixes every night, now we are doing less because most of those new people already got teams and they are doing pcw’s or wars instead of double mixes, but we still do them almost every day and about 3-4 per day, that’s really a lot in our community, it DOES also help a lot to get people into 6vs6, and things like these should start within each euro country community.
Even having said that, unlocks still present a sort of barrier. WHen I started on my team for our national league, I already was fully aware of 6vs6 as I watched matches from na and euro scene and had already done dozens of lobbies. But alot other friends who were completly new felt limited by the whitelist, let them experiment things and feel comfortable with the 6s format, probably there’s going to be people in div6 running backburner(if it was allowed), yes, but any competent player knows how to deal with a bb pyro, and those players will start to realize it’s not gonna work and end up improving their game. Ultimately it’s for the best of all.
Also as someone said before, I would also allow the underpowered unlocks, it’s gonna create a mess in the lower divisions, but it will allow these players to feel comfortable and improve their game over time with their errors. And who knows, there might be a guy surprising us running a FaN full time who is awesome with it.
Quoted from Monkeh
[…]
They aren’t stopped running ‘utility’ classes all the time. If someone makes a team that runs 2 spies and a heavy full time and they go play div 6 and have a whole load of fun then that’s good isn’t it? Maybe a few of them will realise the flaws of their decision and move onwards and upwards, maybe all of them.
I remember a team called Oceanic six who played with a heavy most of the time, (Oh hey Alx), they made it work.
You say unlocks are part of the problem and then say changing them will do fuck all…how does that make sense?
Playing only 5CP maps, (+ G’Pit btw :p, another reason why we HAVE to keep it in the mapool), should be looked at and is easy to fix, bring in a KOTH map, keep g’pit, boom, 3 play modes are go. Maybe there’s room for CTF in some way or another too, maybe even payload or dustbowl, but I would think the map choices are the least of things to stop people starting 6v6. Key phrase there is starting, how many pubbers have spent hours and hours on badlands?
I’m not talking about free-for-all unlocks. I’m talking about a few that would bring fresh ideas, tactics, spectators and players to our scene.
But most people don’t want to make their own team, nevermind make their own team and run offclasses the entire time. Oceanic Six was the exception to the rule. ;)
It makes sense because unlocks are far from the only reason. Simply allowing unlocks won’t change the other reasons (much) so people still won’t join in significant numbers.
Other gamemodes shouldn’t be used simply so we get more people. They should be used for being good.
wah-wah-wah, my mix group is better than yours?! Seriously?
I have nothing against any communities mix groups, be it national, political, religious or regional, but there was no rage allowed in the newbie mix group, that is my point.
Saying it didn’t work due to ‘one ill-tempered shithead’ making someone never come back is just plain wrong, we didn’t let any rage build, simples, and a large percentage of them came back again and again.
To say it’s a stupid argument to your point after mentioning Romanian guys in the Romanian mix group STARTED in the newbie mix group says it all, it obviously worked. Both will work with some effort and time being put in.
Good to hear you giving something back, keep it up.
Quoted from CrashSite
Annnnnnnnd this is the point I start getting worried, when people start talking about _pl maps…
Instead of actually helping tf2, it has got to be the rules, it couldn’t be the fact that NA does a load to reach out to pubbers, it has to pubbers not liking the rules.
What does the US do to reach out to pubbers? Our newbie mix groups are strange and kind of just torture :). Me and a few buddies use to just rofl stomp them as our “not main” classes. I’ve run into situations where you’d have two middle open mentors, and then an IM scout and a ex invite demo just sitting there beating the shit out of everyone.
Though I have to admit, PYYYOUR is quite helpful to anyone that reaches out to him when he has the time, and EXTV is fucking AMAZING and catnip/sal has 2-3k views on all his vids and he keeps them simpler which is really nice for newer people.
Oh yeas and I’m sure STAR_ may have encouraged a few people here and there in his occasional 6’s pug videos.
Last edited by Thomas the train,
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