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football is forever, tf2 not. its so simple.

I do get your point, ydor.

But its a game.. we dont get paid, no contracts.. its all about the fun! And if someone thinks playing with his current team is no more fun (for what so ever reasons), hes allowed to leave and join another team or found a new one.

-> your comparison with football lacks for so many reasons/facts

I do get your point, ydor.

But its a game.. we dont get paid, no contracts.. its all about the fun! And if someone thinks playing with his current team is no more fun (for what so ever reasons), hes allowed to leave and join another team or found a new one.

-> your comparison with football lacks for so many reasons/facts

That’s valid as long as you compare it only to professional football.

But let’s take it to a german example, as we’re both germans: There are so many amateur football players, that only play for fun. Still there are leagues and divisions. You start “Kreisliga C” with a new team, point. No matter whether the players in your team already played “Bezirksliga”, “Verbandsliga” or “2. Bundesliga” before.

I agree we all play here for fun. But if you played for months with a team and then find out they are all dicks and you want to play with ppl you like more, why not search in existing teams for ppl you like? I have friends in quite a few good teams. Ok, I’m in no way good enough anymore to play on top lvl, but a while ago when I was still main medic for eLD I could easily have found a new team to join, with nice ppl inside, if I had found eLD lacking. There’s no reason at all to keep founding new teams to play exactly with the ppl you want to play with.

And at professional level there are contracts and payments. In TF2 there are no salaries (yet). But you earn money by prizes or sponsoring. In other games the top teams like dignitas or SK pay their professional players salaries.

What? Errr… Fortress is forever. Who cares about TF2, as long as we get to play fortress. There will be other fortress-games after TF2. Since the day online-gaming was founded in this universe (and by that, I mean the date quakeworld and the netcode therein that made it possible was released — thank you Zoid!) there has been TeamFortress played. Every day. For over 11 years.

This is why when people like Ydor writes something (which I personally played Fortress against on quite a few occasions some 7-8 years ago), I read their messages two times to make sure I understood it all. You obviously should too, kids.

ETF2L will promote stability over skill on every turn, since this is a spoken decree from “the one to rule them all”. And the reason should be obvious.

it’s quite simple: all power to the teams/clans, less power to single players.

for example: (clan) eLD “earned” their div2-spot throughout several seasons.
if it would happen now that 4 or 5 guys leave eLD for whatever reason these guys have to look for another _excisting_ div1/2/3 – team if they are willing to play mid/high. the clan eLD would keep their div2-spot what would make it easier to find replacement for the leavers.

that would support stable clans and make it more difficult for leavers/joiners.

You cannot trust the “system” model to keep the divisions as much fun as they should be. Teams change so much from week to week, month to month: by the time a new ETF2L season starts, the results of last season are, in many cases, borderline irrelevant.

Because we have a small, fragile scene, it’s my opinion that it’s in all of our interests to at least ensure the very best competitive standard possible every season. What does that mean exactly? It means putting teams in the right places to have the best/most competitive/most fun games possible. This is especially important considering ETF2L _is_ our scene. Where we post, where we play. Few of the top teams actually play anywhere else but EMS. Which is a sad reflection of how anemic our scene is and why it needs help and a lot of effort from admins and community at every turn.

The “mid+” (for lack of a better term) teams play in a different way from the rest of the scene and so the way the league is structured for them should reflect that. We can’t fit that part of the scene into the current model because you have teams like Rejects in div 3, and arguably even DCSB in div 2 when they’re better than teams in div 1 already.

Obviously, these things are subject to massive change, but we should be seeding teams on their performance NOW, not what we guess they’re gonna be in 2 months time, or if they finished 2nd, 3rd or 4th in a random div 3 last season.

And, if there’s too many teams for division 2 places, ETF2L should evolve with the scene and accommodate them in better ways than they currently are now.

That’s why in the proposal myself and m0re made to the admins about league restructuring made great efforts to reward _both_ stability and skill. And our model also acknowledges that, to some degree, the current system HURTS stability by teams being placed incorrectly – both too high and too low.

The teams that earned their places should stay where they are (in the case of eLD) or advance (in the case of promotions), no doubt. But there’s also no doubt in my mind that this season, and the ones following, could be better for all involved if we took the courage to change it and evolve with the teams, rather than act against and potentially stifle them.

Loco: So you mean we should have taken a look at your ROSTER and say, “hey, let’s not promote these clans from div3, let’s take these people instead — judging by their roster, they are more WORTHY to a div2 spot!”.

Is this what you mean we should do?

Because, you know… There’s 330 teams, many with more than 6 players. Let’s say 8 to make it somewhat low, but probably good average (since some have over 30 members, a few just have 7-8). 8*330 is still over 2600 players. You SERIOUSLY mean we should track ALL 2600 players down and THEN compare them against each-other and ENVISION how they might do DIVISION-wise? I don’t think that’s entirely correct figure, since ETF2L has over 5000 registered players.

I presume not, so please let me know.