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Freshmeat is bang on. Most of you guys have never even played another fps game, let me tell you from experience this is how you kill a game. QW (great example) died because we all got too good, the entire level, even the noobs, were MILES above the skill of the newcomers, consequently new players dried up, the scene got old and died, same can be said of many other games.

TF2 is different inasmuch as valve keep pumping in changes, most of them are fucking terrible, but it keeps the game alive (hats lol). I heard some nonsense from division-one players about “NO PRO MOD, WE DON’T WANT TO SEPARATE THE COMP SCENE FROM THE PUB SCENE” well guess what, Vanilla TF2 (aka boring TF2) does exactly that, only it does it worse by empowering the scout and demo even more than normal.

Its not the unlocks that separate 6v6 from pubs, its the classes that are being used. Cheers.

maybe now people who actually wanted to help tf2 getting better have the chance to give some feedback

or not, they actually getting spammed with post’s like “heavy needs gloves making him move twice as fast as a scout” or sumthing like that

Quoted from Fragga

It’s fairly obvious, teams which are carried by their scouts and demo don’t want change, we saw that in the last beta, any suggestion which in anyway would affect this situation was rejected out of hand. Even to the extent of increasing the FOV to 100.

The benefits of pubbers doing this instead is that most of them probably wont be scouts seeking more buffs to an already dominant class. Hopefully we might see changes which bring the other 5 classes into comp play, BUT YOU CAN BET YOUR LIFE EURO TF2 WILL GO VANILLA TO STOP THIS.

Hey come on fragga, introducing an extra 5 classes into comp play means the top teams will have to rethink tactics and learn a new playstyle which is effort and they win lots currently anyway!

Vanilla + medic because thats what we’re best at!11!

Fragga is the only one with a good point in this thread.

I think all points made by everyone so far are completely retarded and spastic because they’re based on presumptions/guesses. Valve hasn’t done anything other than say “we’re going to do an open public beta”, yet somehow we’re already on page 4 of flame.

dont mad

unlocks wont make you or your team better. The skill gap wont suddenly disappear if you allow gunboats. To truly make competitive scene grow, we need players with previous experience from other games to pick TF2 and aim for the top. Random public players who switch to comp are so far behind.

Fragga just have to accept the fact that soldier class in _TEAM_ fortress is not meant for deathmatch, sure its different in yankpugs where you only seem to play, there one soldier can dominate when the other mixteam doesnt have the experience to avoid situations where you shouldnt be against a soldier.

I feel like all your posts are just random trolling learned from the glorious USA, like a guy sitting in a pub commentating a football game “I would have scored from there”
Get a fuckin team, come to LANs and show how its done and stop being an ass

Vanilla is only suggested for division 1 anyway.

And yes, beta was a failure last time.. I just could not bare to be there. Some random yanks had so awful ideas. Scout to have “buff banner” which would give speedboost to everyone just because quake has haste. AGRGH?!?!MDA