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Quoted from Indxyou

huhy will lead the ac team to glory!

By keeping you banned. Hopefully.

Bill messaged me earlier asking about where he would be able to garner the XFF headers from, the gist of it:

The facts:

– XFF headers are a HTTP header, not a TCP/IP header. As such you wouldn’t be able to glean them directly from the TF2 logs. If your MOTD links to a site, or something else that uses HTTP, then you could. Of course, there is no guarantee that XFF headers would even be sent, even though it might be the same IP for multiple people.
– The probability of an IP conflict in a country like Turkey is much more likely to occur than somewhere like, for example, the UK. This is simply because of the sort of allocations and pools that are set up. You can’t use probabilistic figures that are devised for countries that use local pools for one which uses a pool for the entirety of it’s base.
– Using probabilities after the fact is a fallacious way of measuring potential accuracy. It’s very unlikely that you will win the lottery, but someone has to win it. You have to look at the odds of it happening to anyone, not the odds of it happening to X, otherwise you are looking at the wrong value.

He has refused to allow me to post the conversation on ETF2L.

I’ve read 6 Harry Potter books instead of reading this post..

Anyways, if Forza did it, he’s an idiot for posting this post.
If not, the AC team is idiots.

Also, I think I saw something about the rest of the team getting banned as well, that is BULLSHIT imo..

Regarding this situation, we have to be rational and not let any random cheater just make up lies, bad-mouthing other players and admins, damaging the community. That’s why I’m writing this. It’s great that people dare to stand up for each other and fight “the man”, but we shouldn’t get carried away.

Chris, you know I don’t mind complaining about admins. When it comes to highlander, there’s nothing I love to do more. When it comes to this, I wouldn’t have posted the following had I not been 99.9 % sure that the decision was well-founded.

I would also like to point out that due to me just being a new admin and being mostly unavailable for the past weeks, I wasn’t involved in this case.

Alright, let’s sum this up:

1) A person tells the admins that he knows a specific player who borrowed a specific friend’s steam account for a specific match.

2) The admins check the server logs for the match and find out the IP of the specified player.

3) The admins proceed to go through 250 logged IPs for the accused player and see that only 1 – a single IP – has been used by more than that player, and it happened to be used (for the first time) only 2 days before the match. It also happens that that single IP is the exact one used during the specified match, and it was used by the exact same account that was allegedly borrowed to the accused player!

In addition to that, with the accused player being ready and needed to play, but being denied by the opponents, we even have a motive for the rule-break.

Although I’m sure what Chris is saying is correct, all of this basically rules out the statistical possibility of them having the same IP address being a coincidence.

When it comes to proof, there’s nothing more to add than what has already been said, unless you are claiming that the admins are lying about someone reporting the player and that there are no logs showing the stated IPs, which would be kind of ridiculous. Unlike shady demos allegedly showing off wallhack, this is not a judgement call.

You can never be 100 % sure of anything. Not even if the players admit it themselves. You can always rationalize and use your creativity to find all kinds of reasons as to how this could all just be a coincidence. That’s why the law says that it has to be “beyond any reasonable doubt”. which is what this is.

Quoted from ashkan

Regarding this situation, we have to be rational and not let any random cheater just make up lies, bad-mouthing other players and admins, damaging the community. That’s why I’m writing this. It’s great that people dare to stand up for each other and fight “the man”, but we shouldn’t get carried away.

Chris, you know I don’t mind complaining about admins. When it comes to highlander, there’s nothing I love to do more. When it comes to this, I wouldn’t have posted the following had I not been 99.9 % sure that the decision was well-founded.

I would also like to point out that due to me just being a new admin and being mostly unavailable for the past weeks, I wasn’t involved in this case.

Alright, let’s sum this up:

1) A person tells the admins that he knows a specific player who borrowed a specific friend’s steam account for a specific match.

2) The admins check the server logs for the match and find out the IP of the specified player.

3) The admins proceed to go through 250 logged IPs for the accused player and see that only 1 – a single IP – has been used by more than that player, and it happened to be used (for the first time) only 2 days before the match. It also happens that that single IP is the exact one used during the specified match, and it was used by the exact same account that was allegedly borrowed to the accused player!

In addition to that, with the accused player being ready and needed to play, but being denied by the opponents, we even have a motive for the rule-break.

Although I’m sure what Chris is saying is correct, all of this basically rules out the statistical possibility of them having the same IP address being a coincidence.

When it comes to proof, there’s nothing more to add than what has already been said, unless you are claiming that the admins are lying about someone reporting the player and that there are no logs showing the stated IPs, which would be kind of ridiculous. Unlike shady demos allegedly showing off wallhack, this is not a judgement call.

You can never be 100 % sure of anything. Not even if the players admit it themselves. You can always rationalize and use your creativity to find all kinds of reasons as to how this could all just be a coincidence. That’s why the law says that it has to be “beyond any reasonable doubt”. which is what this is.

No you can’t be 100% sure of anything but you can’t ban someone on sheer chance and that is all you have – no evidence just chance. All of this could of happened without anyone account sharing

Quoted from skeej

Imagine actual justice/law would go like this. O wait, it did. In the middle ages.

Imagine people on the internet knowing anything about justice systems.

After all, bullet-lead analysis, fingerprint evidence, and dna profiling profiles are black and white science like in all the movies right? right?

Oh wait, evidence isn’t a cool plot device in real life.

Quoted from octochris

– Using probabilities after the fact is a fallacious way of measuring potential accuracy. It’s very unlikely that you will win the lottery, but someone has to win it. You have to look at the odds of it happening to anyone, not the odds of it happening to X, otherwise you are looking at the wrong value.

sorry, but if you look at the subset of turkish tf2 players and the ones that are actually in a team, then i suppose getting eaten by flying sharks will be more likely than these getting the same IPs (that is, if you wait long enough, of course they will. What I do not understand here and what is crucial is the time frame – if they got the same IP like 5 days away from each other, then “meh”. if it’s at the same time really then “yeh”.)

(assuming that the IP pool is somewhat “big” of course, which doesnt need to be the case, dont know about that.)

free forza!