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The Beta Inquiry #1: The Direct Hit
Created 10th December 2010 @ 13:24
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Hi!
The main goal of these threads is to see if the community would like to see a beta version of a weapon/feature and what problems that version should address. Exploring new possibilites and getting to try out different types of weapons in the beta can be very interesting and more importantly provide a win-win situation in the continious unlock discussion. Hopefully threads like these can document clearly what the priorities of the community are and show what we would like to see fixed, and why.
Some Guidelines for posting:
– Keep your feedback constructive
– Only comment if you have something to contribute
– Spam and off-topic posts will removed
– Do not spam your ideas in this thread.
– Don’t start a discussion about whether a weapon is OP or not
Kicking off, I definately think this weapon could be impoved a lot. The most obvious problem with it is the high damage output which can one-shot light classes.
Just remove the added damage output.
That is the main problem yes.
However I doubt people would be happy with a +25% firerate tdh with the current splash and rocket speed.
Another problem (imo), with the tdh is that it is not really popular under people who play soldier as their main class. I’d say mostly because the rocket speed is so high and splash so low that it’s aiming style becomes close the a hitscan weapon as opposed to the normal rocket launcher which uses prediction, and where you aim slightly behind the feet of the target. Mini-crits on airshots and juggles is something I don’t see as a problem but more of something that gets into a bad spotlight combined with the problems mentioned before.
Please correct me if Im wrong.
Remove mini-crits on airshots.
Make damage output <125dmg
Slightly less damage fall-off than RL
10% faster fire speed? Else people would still not use it. Feel free to come up with something better :P.
Quoted from Koeitje
Remove mini-crits on airshots.
Make damage output <125dmg
Slightly less damage fall-off than RL
10% faster fire speed? Else people would still not use it. Feel free to come up with something better :P.
I like this, but wasn’t the entire idea behind the DH to “reward” airshots?
Maybe it should only mini-crit when the target was thrown in the air by an explosive (right now simply jumping counts too).
Maybe lower rocket speed a bit, because its really easy to hit with it now.
(they fixed the jumping thing afaik)
*Reduce damage
*Make the damage drop rate smaller ( the one that as far rocket goes it makes less dmg)
Quoted from Spike Himself
[…]
I like this, but wasn’t the entire idea behind the DH to “reward” airshots?
Maybe it should only mini-crit when the target was thrown in the air by an explosive (right now simply jumping counts too).
-Must…not….respond…-
Direct hits damage should have its damage reduced to something beneath 125 to get rid those oneshot kills yeah.
Also maybe less falloff
Minicrits on airshots have got to go though
Quoted from RaCio
Mini-crits on airshots and juggles is something I don’t see as a problem but more of something that gets into a bad spotlight combined with the problems mentioned before.
Please correct me if Im wrong.
Not only is it much too high a reward for comparatively little effort, but on airshots it just really slows to the game down by providing a huge deterrent to jumping aggressively. Any decent soldier that practices with the DH will hit those shots consistently and easily and it will be a 1 shot kill most of the time too.
-Damage bonus decreased from 25% to 10%
-Splash damage radius reduction decreased from 70% to 50-60%
-Removed mini-crits on enemies airborne due to explosions.
-Reduced fall-off damage for direct hits on grounded targets.
Was my suggestion for a new DH.
Quoted from Spike Himself
I like this, but wasn’t the entire idea behind the DH to “reward” airshots?
Maybe it should only mini-crit when the target was thrown in the air by an explosive (right now simply jumping counts too).
This is exactly how the DH works right now.
You can tell I use the DH a lot.
Spamming ideas/suggestions in the early stages is kinda worthless as coming up with ideas is simple. Hell, I could even let my little nephew come up with a good idea for tdh. But until people have reached a consensus on what the exact problem of the weapon is it’s near impossible to say which of the ideas is the best.
Quoted from Vali
[…]
Not only is it much too high a reward for comparatively little effort, but on airshots it just really slows to the game down by providing a huge deterrent to jumping aggressively. Any decent soldier that practices with the DH will hit those shots consistently and easily and it will be a 1 shot kill most of the time too.
You kind of prove my point here. As I said I think the “little effort” and “1 shot kill” are side effects from the increased speed and damage of the direct hit. Would the regular rocket launcher have the same problem if it had the mini-crit attribute? (122 damage on an airshot)
Edit: I do agree on the observation that the current TDH slows down things a bit.
Quoted from RaCio
You kind of prove my point here. As I said I think the “little effort” and “1 shot kill” are side effects from the increased speed and damage of the direct hit. Would the regular rocket launcher have the same problem if it had the mini-crit attribute? (122 damage on an airshot)
I’d have a problem that the airshots are still too damaging and while the little effort is negated on a lot of the airshots, minicrits also have the side-effect of increased knockback which is pretty unnecessary. There’s no real need for airshots to be more damaging than a point blank rocket nor more powerful in knockback; there is definitely a need for skillful long distance airshots to do more than 48 damage.
The problem on the direct hit isn’t the speed, it’s the splash making it useless for anything but pretty much direct hits on single targets and the damage exceeding 125 in close-range. Increase the splash so you can, even barely, hit 2 targets at once and make it less punishing for just missing. Reduce the damage so you can no longer 1 shot light classes and remove minicrits (while adding fall-off reduction on airshots for all rocket launchers). Reduce fall-off slightly on direct hits to add incentive to still go for the direct hits.
Quoted from Vali
[…]
I’d have a problem that the airshots are still too damaging and while the little effort is negated on a lot of the airshots, minicrits also have the side-effect of increased knockback which is pretty unnecessary. There’s no real need for airshots to be more damaging than a point blank rocket nor more powerful in knockback; there is definitely a need for skillful long distance airshots to do more than 48 damage.
Mini-crits do not have increased knockback for explosives (explosive knockback is dependant on the place it hits the hitbox and damage). The only extra knockback is that of the extra damage which with the normal rocket launcher would be 1 damage less then for example your tdh suggestion with +10% damage on base range (on longer ranges the rocket launcher with minicrits would be a bit stronger).
So I don’t really see the mini-crits as a definite problem. It’s also what makes the weapon unique so I don’t see valve changing it :p
Quoted from Koeitje
Maybe lower rocket speed a bit, because its really easy to hit with it now.
(they fixed the jumping thing afaik)
Yeah, kind of agree. Faster rocket speed is fine but this is a bit to much.
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