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Quoted from CrashSite

[…]

That is a fair point, but it does not take into account the situations that are unplanned for. For example I am an idiot and walk around a corner without thinking, get hit by a rocket or two, I can then EQ out of there to safety.

This is not the same as the example you gave.

It is also the mechanic itself that is an issue, in almost every situation, you want to keep your health, the mechanic rewards you taking damage, which is basically a reward for doing something that you should not do.

I think you still didn’t get my point. My point was that the “status quo” makes up where the line is drawn. Even with the EQ/EP, there will be situations that you cannot escape out of. There is no fundamental difference between EP allowed/banned, only the line of what the soldier can do and what situation he can get out of is moved up. There is no set-in-stone law that says that the soldier shouldn’t be able to get out of more situations than he currently can under the vanilla+medlocks ruleset (NA ruleset proves that).

To use your own argument against you, because that is a fun thing to do: There is no golden rule that says damage taking is always bad; something which you seem to imply. If you rocket jump, you sacrifice health for speed and positioning. Hmmm… if you put it this way it sounds kind of similar to this certain melee unlock that sacrifices health for speed? Maybe we should ban rocket jumping?

Quoted from skeej

[…]

I think you still didn’t get my point. My point was that the “status quo” makes up where the line is drawn. Even with the EQ/EP, there will be situations that you cannot escape out of. There is no fundamental difference between EP allowed/banned, only the line of what the soldier can do and what situation he can get out of is moved up. There is no set-in-stone law that says that the soldier shouldn’t be able to get out of more situations than he currently can under the vanilla+medlocks ruleset (NA ruleset proves that).

To use your own argument against you, because that is a fun thing to do: There is no golden rule that says damage taking is always bad; something which you seem to imply. If you rocket jump, you sacrifice health for speed and positioning. Hmmm… if you put it this way it sounds kind of similar to this certain melee unlock that sacrifices health for speed? Maybe we should ban rocket jumping?

Ok counter-point.

I think you missed my point (I am noticing a pattern), I accept that it changes the status quo, where you can go more aggressive and get out because of it, this would be a planned action and in fact is ok (kinda). What I was saying is that when a solider does something that is 100% a mistake, ie walking around a corner into spam by accident or getting caught of position because of bad comms etc, then this is when the EQ rewards the failure. Maybe you consider this part of the change of the status quo, in that case it was a simple misunderstanding of semantics. But the status quo I feel should never to be at the point where a solly can make a massive positional mistake, ie not bombing in, just caught in house for example, and still get away.

Losing health is always a bad thing. You use the example of RJ, the losing of health in this situation is still a bad thing, but you are weighing up the reduction of health to gain position. If you could do the same thing as quick without losing health you would always do that, as losing health is always a negative. That is why a bad rocket jump will take more health than needed, you are punished with less health. The difference between this and the EQ is that a directness of the damage.

If I take damage through lets say spam, I will get speed with the EQ, this is not a choice, there is not the sacrifice as the damage is forced upon you.

Also you can’t RJ on low health, while with EQ the less health you have the faster you can go. They are inverse (think that is right term) to each other.

Quoted from Mercyless

What Skeej is saying (at least what I understood from his posts) that the equalizer makes the soldier a slightly stronger class, and thats it. If you want to call an unlock bad then you need to give good arguments why is it bad, you can’t just say “in vanilla you wouldn’t be able to do this”.

What the equalizer basically does that it increases the soldier survivability, thus making him a stronger class. Which is fair because hes the weakest of the 4 competitive classes.

The soldier has no way to avoid damage as hes very slow, takes massive self damage, and is completely useless once hes under 40 hp. When demos scouts and medics can do clutch plays, soldiers can only spam rockets across the map.

I am agree with that, but what I am saying is that while this may be the case, it doesn’t change the fact that if a solly does mess up, for example walking around a corner into the other team, that is not good. If this is the “status quo” that is being referred to, where a solly can go into situations 1v4 and still escape, then it is too high a price.

no, the admins don’t care about your opinion

The escape plan definitely makes the soldier better. It doesn’t just allow the soldier to get out of more situations, it does, but it is also a very strong dm tool that allows the soldier to dodge more, grab med-kits, generally be more mobile in fights and even to take a quick melle lounge in to finish off a weak opponent faster than you otherwise would.

The escape plan doesn’t reward failure as much as it opens up new possibilities for the soldier and makes him a slightly stronger class.

Too many things to consider. Would it make the game more dynamic? Yes, definitely. Would it be a disaster for scouts and demo? Probably. But the fact that over-extended sollies would now have opportunity to get away in 30% of time is just very bad.

Just too many things to consider, you could make a small tournament and see how each class is doing in that environment. Get their thoughts etc etc. Would be way better than to think like “AND WHAT IF.. BUT MAYBE.. BUT..MAYBE IT WOULD BE..”.

This speed equalizer is the only thing from all non-vanilla weapons which is even worth to consider of using in competitive games, so we could just make a small tournament to make it all clear.

Quoted from Koala

But the fact that over-extended sollies would now have opportunity to get away in 30% of time is just very bad.

did you know that 90% of all statistics are mad up on the spot

if a solly gets away, you’re bad and should feel bad. end of.

Waebi, how should I feel bad that I didn’t kill a guy who has:
1) the biggest hp from default classes
2) speed of the scout (fastest default class)
3) high in-battle mobility (rocketjumping + eq speed + hp)
?
And those 30% are from about how smart the average dumb over-extending solly could be. Also adding the approximate chance of getting hit in a way that you’d fly away towards your base etc. But the % is really not what you should be focusing on now, guys ;).

And I doubt that lot of people would enjoy playing some digimon game. I mean, allowing much unlocks would just make people to quit ETF2L again. It could be possible to add new items but like 1, 2 item a season or so and even then it would be risky.

Just do a little tournament with the speed equalizer. Otherwise there are too many cons and pros to consider, and theory will never win practice.

Mercyless: as how important the middle fights for most of the time are, demo could really be a lot less dominant due to fact that he would get bombed pretty much every mid by a really fast and high hp soldier, therefore, would demo would have to place defensive stickies and deal a lot less damage, at least until he is secured.