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ETF2L form me was always about enjoying the game we play, I really think fairplay should have it’s use. I started discussion about admins being arbitraty and rules being very well written today we had a proof of it by removing couple of teams that changed their rosters a little, 2 from Open, 2 from High.

I really think rule about hijacking is being abused, I understand use of this rule when leader and whole team is being replaced in place of other just to get guaranteed spot in the tier that the team had previously, but changing roster is nothing wrong, if you see that your team doesn’t work well together doing drastical changes are wron?

You can vote and show support on that poll:
http://strawpoll.me/4162210

Also I made steam group about this case and not only but to prove other arbitrary decisions by admins. Also additional questions, I really don’t believe that there is no democracy on etf2l. Admins just really send people back with their questions don’t really listen to our requests. For me being an admin was always about serving community. I done it in IRC HL pickups, I was doing it on TF2Pickup.net and I was doing it on Max-Play community servers.

Do you believe admins are arbirtrary?
Do you think rules could be upgraded?

Please answer give feedback and lets start discussion.
Steam group, I am gonna work on it overnight so it wont be empty, if you have personal questions or suggestions hit me on Steam:
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/badminsetf2l

i’ve often wondered what the point of petitions really are.

completely agree. by dropping 5+ teams you are preventing 50+ people from enjoying the rest of the season. discourse can be had on whether the intention of the rule (roster hijacking, aka people coming in and replacing the present team) fits the measures taken today, but HL teams always are clusterfucks and if things dont pan out immedeately after start of the season new people have to be brought on.

tbh this measure is anti-fun, and aginst the spirit of competition. whoever went through with this measure should be ashamed and the decision repealed.

Been talking to the team and them having to change their rosters so much has only been a disadvantage, one they’ve had overcome and it’s unfair to have them removed from the competition because of this

my original post was not to say that this isn’t completely unfair on the teams involved, but a petition isn’t going to change much.

Quoted from .zero

The punishment is just retarded compared to the rule violation. I don’t get it why the teams just are not being contacted by any admin and ask the reason of the rosterchanges?

I totally agree with this…

Osman just say what changes did you made to the roster and why?

“A team may not be replaced in a competition by a new team or lineup without admin permission.”

Why admins have power over people deciding who should play on their teams? It doesn’t break any other rule. As I said that rule would have use if 9 new guys actually played including the leader.

How you guys understand this rule? Why changing 4 people in main lineup is considered a new team?

Last edited by Hajdzik, 9 years ago

Quoted from Hajdzik

changed their rosters a little

Just shows to me how little you know from the get go already. Changing 50%+ of a roster is changing a roster a little? We are looking at replacing teams once they are playing an official with more than half their active roster consisting of new players. A new player being a player who joined after the start of the season.

Quoted from Hajdzik

I really think rule about hijacking is being abused

Makes sense, because our goal as admins is obviously to kick as many teams out as we can.

Quoted from Hajdzik

Admins just really send people back with their questions don’t really listen to our requests.

People requesting admins in almost all cases are very happy with the answers or the support they received, what are you even basing your argumentation on? The only few times when players are not happy, is when a decision is made against them. Sometimes they understand after you explain it for them, sometimes they still think they are being treated unfairly or whatever, thats the only case when players might not be satisfied really. And that happens fairly rarely.
I talked to you over an hour yesterday already, something I dont have to do, especially if you dont cannot or dont want to understand the reasons behind the decision that was seemingly made against your team. But I still explained it to you and disapproved your argumentation over and over again. But you just kept playing the same record like a broken record player, so at some point I will end the chat, when I feel that my time and effort are wasted and can be spend in a better way.

Quoted from Anus Stretcher

When I talked to admins there were no circumstances being taken into account.

How do you even know that?

Quoted from Anus Stretcher

Also the rule only states that if “none or very few” original players left on the team then the team is gone. Whats few? 2? 3? An admin in another thread said 4. Why 4, no one knows.

As stated above, we are looking into possible hijack cases once you play an official with 50%+ new players, which is more than 4 or in other words 5, as ash said in a different thread. He never said 4, he said more than 4.

Quoted from .zero

I don’t get it why the teams just are not being contacted by any admin and ask the reason of the rosterchanges?

Because we cannot possibly babysit and monitor every team. The rules are openly available for everyone for a reason. Teams want to change their roster, they come to us in advance. How would we even know if a team plans to change their roster? Once they changed their roster and played the official with 50%+ new players its too late already.

Generally this rule exists and is enforced to ensure that a team playing against a certain team at the start of the season, has the same chances for the sake of fairness compared to another team playing the same team at the end of the season. If a team replaces over half of their active players mid season, it can be unfair to the teams they played earlier in the season (if they are replacing better players with worse) or unfair to the teams they are playing later in the season (if they are replacing worse players with better ones).
As the rule also states, the whole situation can be avoided by contacting an admin and informing him that you will need to replace players or get new players in and by presenting these players. The admins will then evaluate if the request is reasonable, which happens fairly quickly and you can continue from there if everything’s fine. Teams not even bothering to contact an admin, let alone read the rules, shouldnt really except any leeway from the admins. Since every team is treated the same, based on the same rules.

Quoted from Hajdzik

Petition not, but if we have a lot people who agree we can do something about it for sure. Need just enough support.

Have fun with that. :)