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Quoted from kaidus

Imagine if FIFA said “Ok lads next season we’re going to add a new type of ball. It will play nothing like the ball you’ve spent your whole lives training with, but that’s no problem becuase if you’re really talented you’ll still be able to beat everyone with it.”

Honestly imagine it for a second, and then ask why tf2 should be any different.

But the weapons in no way drastically alter how the game will be played, you’re still going to have the same tactics for every map generally. Sure, little things change, like if the Demoman used the targe, but it doesn’t completely change how the game is played – if anything, it makes things more interesting, and gives a greater depth of tactics with which to work with.

I hate valve.

Quoted from SnowiE

[…]
Football governing authorities introduce new rules that change the way football is played all the time. For example – the backpass rule in 1992, changes to offside rule in 1990, the golden goal rule in 1993, the silver goal rule in 2002 (and its removal in 2004), the limits on foreign players in EUFA tournaments and so on. Also they do change the ball all of the time, there are regular debates on how much the change in ball composition and construction has affected football player’s ability to curve the ball.

Besides all of that, football is a mature sport that’s been around for hundreds of years. Comparing that to a game that’s been around for three years is nonsense.

+1

I actually think the various versions of streetfighter serve as a good analogy here.

While I understand that there are not distinct versions of tf2, you could group it as Medic Update -> … -> … -> War ->… etc.

The most active competitive scene in street fighter is (usually) the most recent game. This can have quite different mechanics / characters / game play to the previous versions, while the core mechanics and meta-game remain the same. If someone wishes to play an older version competitively they are free to seek out tournaments that may exist for whichever version they choose – but it remains that most tournaments follow on with the most recent versions – with whatever edits have been made between versions.

New additions are only banned if they are considered game-breaking, not just game changing, as the individual match-ups can change version to version as balance is sought out and new tactics are played off against ecah other.

Not wanting to draw this anology out too much my point is that most leagues should accept new unlocks (though not mid season) if they are available to all players and see how the game develops with the option of new tactics and playstyles.

If it becomes obvious that new versions of the game are simply broken or “boring” then leagues will obviously choose to roll back. I just think it smacks of fear to ban things without having played them with “that” much experience, nor really tested them against in a proper match situation and attempted to develop tactics and counter tactics around them.

I conceed happily that street-fighter is 1. older 2. more easy to balance 3. has a hell of a lot more thought of balance put into it by developers due to its huge competitive scene. And yes, there admittedly have been items that in their initial stages were broken (TDH springs to mind immediately) so I guess like anything this rule would have to be applied “intelligently”, which I guess is the problem :)

edit: I guess the most important thing that makes my analogy weak is that street fighter match ups are much more linear than those in tf2 (not team play, single character matches, etc. so there’s not really a “competitive” style to the game that is that different from the game itself). But I think my point still stands.

Quoted from kaidus

Changing rules != changing mechanics.

The backpass rule definitely changed gameplay mechanics for defenders, but if you want even more appropriate examples – the predator boots in 1994, the gradual adoption of goalkeeper gloves in the 1970s to near ubiquity in the modern game, the continuing kit evolution to increase aerodynamics as well as keeping the player cool, also shin pads were first used 11 years after the creation of the Football Association (FA).

Quoted from SnowiE

[…]
The backpass rule definitely changed gameplay mechanics for defenders, but if you want even more appropriate examples – the predator boots in 1994, the gradual adoption of goalkeeper gloves in the 1970s to near ubiquity in the modern game, the continuing kit evolution to increase aerodynamics as well as keeping the player cool, also shin pads were first used 11 years after the creation of the Football Association (FA).

Health and safety, health and safety, health and safety – these are appropriate examples how? The backpass is a reasoned rule change because of an existing aspect of the game, not because some jackass on the board of directors said “lol how bout dis for our league!”.

Also yea really how much can someone know about football :D

Quoted from Vali

[…]

Actually the argument was that it was statistically possible to never get a random drop of or able to craft a pair of gunboats, the issue was never with crafting away your items and relying on random drops because that’s true of any weapon. If you choose to craft away your targe + charge and razorback which you unlocked from achievements, that’s your problem. Since both weapons are guaranteed from achievements and the new community weapons are guaranteed from crafting of those weapons, its fine.

So now you wanna force people to craft their items? Retarded argument.