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Division/Tiers System

Created 12th September 2017 @ 19:23

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After playing a few seasons with both divisions and tiers systems I came to realise that the current system lacks a few things.

Back in the days, the division system allowed teams to schedule their officials as they wished, which meant that a team could play several officials in a single week and skip a full week if needed.
Also there were wildcards which were very useful when you had some real life commitment you couldn’t avoid. Today you cannot do this anymore, therefore you have to use a sub/merc because the system forces you to.
The division system was also more balanced because the matches were closer making games more interesting to play.
Moreover when it was the old system you had a goal during the season which was winning your division i.e winning div2, div4, etc. Right now when you start mid or high your purpose is mainly to stay in that tier more than actually trying to compete in the division and the point of playing competitive has always been to win your division but the task became so much harder. Only 4 winners each season now when there were 8 winners in the past.

Now, it seems to me that the advantage of the tier system would be that it allows worse teams to play against better teams and within the season narrow the number of good teams fighting to win their tier. But that is pretty much the only advantage I can think of.

So I’ve created a strawpoll to see what people think :
http://www.strawpoll.me/13915539

I would like to hear people’s thoughts on the subject and maybe try to come up with a better system for the upcoming seasons.

torrit

redpandas

DIVS OR RIOT

DeLiRiOuS.

DABZ

still waiting for the comeback of the divs….

Koala

FROG

but how will you beat murica then

Lupus

BANANA.

i’ve been saying this for years. It’s time for divIZON to return !

Bloodis

(League Admin)
(๑╹ω╹๑ )
catgirl.tf

Quoted from Maybe

The division system was also more balanced because the matches were closer making games more interesting to play.

This is not true at all, with divisions your team would be set in a division with 7 other teams that you barely would know about and they all could as well trash or get trashed by the other best teams in other division groups that are said to be of similar skill level. How Swiss system works is that if you keep on winning all of your matches, you will then be paired against other teams that also have been winning all of their matches as well to decide which of these teams is actually better in the main season. The same goes backwards too just as well.

Quoted from Maybe

Moreover when it was the old system you had a goal during the season which was winning your division i.e winning div2, div4, etc. Right now when you start mid or high your purpose is mainly to stay in that tier more than actually trying to compete in the division and the point of playing competitive has always been to win your division but the task became so much harder. Only 4 winners each season now when there were 8 winners in the past.

This is a fair point but I doubt we would do anything huge about this as we already find our current system working all well and fine for the lower skill levels at least, so that the only skill level affected by the Swiss system now where this would see benefit of is high so that the “lower” high teams would actually be able to only compete against the other similarly skilled teams in their groups, while letting the top high teams play in their own division alone. But Swiss system is still mostly fine for everyone playing in mid and open so it’s unlikely that we would have plans to change that.

.zero

GIEL
.awkward

Quoted from Bloodis

[…]

This is not true at all, with divisions your team would be set in a division with 7 other teams that you barely would know about and they all could as well trash or get trashed by the other best teams in other division groups that are said to be of similar skill level. How Swiss system works is that if you keep on winning all of your matches, you will then be paired against other teams that also have been winning all of their matches as well to decide which of these teams is actually better in the main season. The same goes backwards too just as well.

Last season, there were not enough somewhat equally skilled teams in high-tier to benefit from the swiss system anyway, might aswell play divs again to have atleast a fair competition where every team plays against every team.

I personally never liked tiers.

– No sunday games, which was one of the most played days in the week.
– Bye weeks are utterly retarded.
– Unfair compared to divs.
– If you are not on top of your tier, it’s pointless to tryhard since you know you can’t win and demotion is very unlikely – Less satisfying, more default wins.

MoistPenguin

(League Admin)
BNB

Quoted from .zero

[…]

Last season, there were not enough somewhat equally skilled teams in high-tier to benefit from the swiss system anyway, might aswell play divs again to have atleast a fair competition where every team plays against every team.

I personally never liked tiers.

– No sunday games, which was one of the most played days in the week.
– Bye weeks are utterly retarded.
– Unfair compared to divs.
– If you are not on top of your tier, it’s pointless to tryhard since you know you can’t win and demotion is very unlikely – Less satisfying, more default wins.

We can and have considered running high as a round robin and mid and open as swiss. If we do it for S14 depends on signup numbers

You can still play sunday, the only day you cannot play is saturday, sundays have always been an available play day for swiss games. It is teams choice to not play sundays

Bye weeks are not ideal, however the swiss system deals with dropped teams far far better than Round Robin. In RR if one team drops every other team gets a week where they do not play. Whereas if a team drops in swiss ideally only one team gets affected by it, and this leads to teams playing more games.

Bloodis has already addressed the fact that both divs and tiers are different approaches to matching up different skilled teams that also have that skill change over a season into competitive games.

I agree that the reduced numbers of winners may mean that more teams give up earlier in a season. However this is one of the minor issues with the swiss, there are problems with swiss but there also problems with divs. People saying the div problem was flawless are delirious. Every decision is a compromise.

Permzilla

(Legend)
fm!
WiK?

personally i think tiers was a great idea

loopster

DABZ

Back to d6 africa

Lupus

BANANA.

Bring back divs for a season and let the people decide.

edit: I mean its 60 to 40 in favour of divs and having 6 divs instead of 4 tiers carefully siffted the player base into the skill pool (not just dm but brain) it was actually hard to climb divs back then you had to win or get really good screens against teams of the div you wanted to go into. It was the main reason why teams didn’t crumble after 1 season for years. Now people make a project get into high,hope to win it, get into prem and get destroyed because the leap is too huge in playstyle. I would compare it to a div 2 team jumping into prem.Anyway I don’t like to write paragraphs but this had to be said.The real reason tf2 is dying is because of the tiers not old players leaving.

#spreadthetruth #whatnowatheists


Last edited by Lupus,

NeuTronas

sv_cheats

No wildcards is the biggest downside

alba

dogs.tf
Lucrosa

Online

I agree with Lupus. Bring divs back, atleast for a season or 2.

Aoshi

(Head Admin)
PrettyGay
Twisted

Quoted from Lupus

It was the main reason why teams didn’t crumble after 1 season for years

Yeah, now you have those preseason playoff projects like yours that die 4 days after they’re made.

Both Round Robin and Swiss has its pros and cons.
Round Robin currently stands out as the worse system imo. Mainly for the lower tiers.

A random straw poll doesnt really mean anything. You cant see who voted on it, could be pubbers for all we know and there currently is very little amount of votes on it.

Lupus

BANANA.

All i see is excuses and no actions beeing taken the tier system is maybe easier to manage for the admins but it is not better for the players. I understand that beeing an admin and managing this league is noones job and you don’t get payed for it but sticking with whats easy or has been established doesn’t mean its the better choice. Also ofcourse divs weren’t perfect but getting into playoffs in high or any other div is mostly based on rng with the free points and other bullshit like that. And the “how did this idiot get to prem” problem started with tiers.
I know cuz I’m an example of that . Me and Graba made a team for prem playoffs and Spin did the same back in season 21 and we won (by luck). And what happened to that “PREM” team? we got 4 points in the season because it was a new unstable project people left all the time, people raged and it was not even that fun to play. This is the first example of a not so short list of prem teams . If you still think tiers are better at doing the job of beeing a step ladder for what could potentially be good teams . Think again.

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