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The perfect 5 CP map?
Created 25th November 2009 @ 12:48
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I think the idea of classes arriving at the same time is a bad one.
Maps like Badlands and Granary rely heavily on a demoman navigating/jumping to middle as quickly as possible with sufficent health. If you had 6v6 on middle straight away, you’re just gonna get a clusterfuck of spam
Well my heavy suggestion wouldn’t make everyone arrive at the same time, it would just speed up the heavy’s trip to mid – your soldiers and demo will still be jumping as fast as possible to beat the other team.
Badlands with proper clip brushes.
The first three aren’t problems, they’re gaps. Agree on the last two though, that scoot should be taking damage and knockback.
Gaps or not, you’ll still end up hitting them unintentionally and you can’t really prevent it. Call it a bug or just bad design, it still should be fixed.
Just adjust your aim to cope with those holes.
Anyway’s I’m working on 5cp map. Trying to make it slightly more interesting in layout than obscure (as in not as straight but with some angles like uh lets say blands. Where Spire is a little left of last, and middle all the way to the right.). If somebody has an insane idea for a 2nd point or mid point just let me know :).
Last edited by Koeitje,
If somebody has an insane idea for a 2nd point or mid point just let me know :).
Implement my heavy shortcut idea^^
If somebody has an insane idea for a 2nd point or mid point just let me know :).
An elevated point, which can only be reached by hopping onto a tiny rock, then onto a slightly bigger rock and from that one onto the point (and Rjumping/Djumping ofcourse)?
cp_orange_x
If somebody has an insane idea for a 2nd point or mid point just let me know :).
An elevated point, which can only be reached by hopping onto a tiny rock, then onto a slightly bigger rock and from that one onto the point (and Rjumping/Djumping ofcourse)?
Already have that :). Not very heavy or medic friendly, so working on alternatives :P
If somebody has an insane idea for a 2nd point or mid point just let me know :).
An elevated point, which can only be reached by hopping onto a tiny rock, then onto a slightly bigger rock and from that one onto the point (and Rjumping/Djumping ofcourse)?
Already have that :). Not very heavy or medic friendly, so working on alternatives :P
jumppad for heavies :D
BOING
Gloves of Running Urgently.
If somebody has an insane idea for a 2nd point or mid point just let me know :).
An elevated point, which can only be reached by hopping onto a tiny rock, then onto a slightly bigger rock and from that one onto the point (and Rjumping/Djumping ofcourse)?
Already have that :). Not very heavy or medic friendly, so working on alternatives :P
jumppad for heavies :D
BOING
AIRSHOOT?
Maybe I’ll just make a conveyor belt to mid point.
Last edited by Koeitje,
Gloves of Running Urgently.
Would change tactics so much it’d be awesome, pull the finger out Valve :(
Just take a look at the two most popular maps.
Granary is interesting because it has a lot obstructions so its hard to spot the enemy, but still the battle areas are large enough for interesting fights. Because its hard to spot to the enemy, there are lots of possibilities for flanking scouts or roaming soldiers or backcaps. For example on the middle point, the crates make it hard to spot the exact positions of the enemy scouts and soldiers, so comms are crucial. However the crates also creates hightadvantage for soldiers, make it also interesting for soldiers. The garage and the second point are separated and there is a dropdown to pass the team and go for a backcap or flank. On the last point the pipes also creates hightadvantage and obstructions at the same time. The main disadvantage is the huge chokepoint between second and third.
Badlands is much more open and not so linear as granary. Because its so open its easy to jump through chokes or taking shortcuts as scout, making it a fast paced map. However the terrain and the heightdifferences making it unique. It just gives the smart and creative player a lot opportunities to change the battles into their advantage.
Looking at other maps though. Fastlane is open but doesnt have obstructions, flanks or height differences. And it is really linear map, making it a really boring to play. This is the reason why i dont think obscure would become popular, because it has the same disadvantages as fastlane.
So a good map should implement the things mentioned above what made badlands and granary a popular map. However a perfect map doesnt exist. What is good for one class is bad for the other. For example well is heavy friendly map, but on the second point soldier, scout and demo are kind of useless. At least they are unable to do some good double/rocket/stickyjumps, halving the possiblities of those classes.
The idea of obscure was that it should reward risky play by having obscured routes that could get you behind the enemy. Especially when pushing from mid to 2nd this is important. In it’s current form it hasn’t. It is also quite hard to get somebody in position for a backcap when defending last because all exits can be seen by 1 guy and there isn’t much cover when you get out (on badlands, for example, you just need a 0.5 sec window to sneak out and if you are out you can run around spire and resupply to harass or cap. It’s still fun to play though, but just not as good as badlands or granary. Gullywash does a better job at it (to bad the middle is not great).
I think gullywash is the only map that can compete with granary and badlands. While arnold was designing gullywash, he probably took badlands as main example. Also on mid you see the similarities: the capture point on the bridge, the valley, something what looks like a shithouse. The difference is that there isnt a house with a healthpack and that it is as fast to go left or right. So most teams are rushing to mid with a tactic equal to valleyrush on badlands.
If everyone spent half as much time testing maps as they did talking about the lack of them, we’d already have another good custom or two. ;)
I for one can’t wait for the next great map to come along, whether it’s from Valve or some mapper who has a stroke of brilliance. But really everyone underestimates the value of some of the maps we already have. Yukon certainly doesn’t get enough credit, nor do some of the newer maps like Indulge.
I think the next great map will be the one to nail the Valve formula of creating memorable control points that have an interesting but still simple flow. Height is of course important, but as we’ve seen with Granary it doesn’t take much of it to create a masterpiece. Really what matters is navigation, which no one can really improve on without feedback from players.
Last edited by FreeLanceFoX,
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