Forum

ohai,

you are right, freedom of speech is atm rather difficult, I won’t state on that.
However there are several reasons for that, one of them in particular, which really upsets me every single time, I got to read posts like these. No idea what I’m talking about? No problem. I am taking about trolling / flaming (etc usual stuff) in recruitment topics.
Seriously guys? This player (or team just in case) is looking for a new team, so your trolling around won’t help him, in fact he gets shot down even before he had a single chance to get some trial.
Here some kind of personal request (note not as admin), PLEASE stop posting in recruitment topics when you don’t know that guy. Ok what if it says high-ultra+ looks for a new team, and you know he hasn’t got that skill? Just tell people in a friendly way, not like: “oh lololol, never! at max low-, omg such a noob” – would you recruit such a guy? I guess not, so for the future of tf2, give new players a chance c0

Thanks!

True enough trollers that do that can be annoying as shit. But you may not have considered that some people may mean what they say if they call someone low skilled. There are LOADS of people in tf2 that think of themselves as more higher skilled than they are. And when someone tries to correct that, THEY get shot down instead. I’ve seen it happen and quite frankly I don’t know what the idea in recruitment posts is if the only things you can say about players looking for a team have to be positive.

Netsky, trolling seems besides the point as it doesn’t include valid opinions, simply random spam. This is more in the direction of people being banned/posts being deleted every time someone goes against the admin team, expresses an opinion or throws a random insult at an admin in a heated discussion (where as i’ve witnessed several times, the admin involved is the one with the harsher use of words)

As an example, when the discussion about the provisional divisions was up, one of my teammates got banned for 2 weeks from the forums for calling Gryzor a downie during a discussion about balance in divisions. Both parts out of line in the discussion and admins banning him.. why? To avoid people complaining? Or was it because of a few mean words against an admin in a discussion where both parts were throwing shit about?
If the admin team actually stopped taking so much offence in every little thing being said, drawing the “we put so much work into this and it better be appreciated, THIS IS NOT A DEMOCRACY” card every time someone criticizes your actions, there would be no problem.

+1 perry

admins, ban perry nao! :S <- safety

tf2street was a publicity stunt for ressuply :O :D

9 respected players from div 1+2 plx. Always found it weird that some people from the lower divs decide what the rules are for div1.

9 respected players from all divs please, always find it a bit weird when <10% of the competing teams decides what the rules are for the rest of the teams.

I dont get your point rlly, coz what you are describing is the exact situation that’s goin on now. div1-2 players to the rescue pls, else we’d still be playin with 2 demos :/

Indeed.

And what the top teams do attracts attention from the e-sports scene -> more people interested -> more players.

What I mean is, that I don’t see the connection between skill/gamesense and being a good admin. And yes, there should be some admins that know what the higher divs want. But the majority of the players are not in a high div, but they are the major part of the 330 teams competing. And I don’t think there would be any sponsors if none of the lower div people would watch the high div matches, visit the site and participate in the competition, because the teams in the lower divs feel that their voice is not heard. Of course it won’t be so dramatic as I decribe it, but I really do think that since the lower divs are the majority of the scene, they should have a voice too.

What I mean is, that I don’t see the connection between skill/gamesense and being a good admin. And yes, there should be some admins that know what the higher divs want. But the majority of the players are not in a high div, but they are the major part of the 330 teams competing. And I don’t think there would be any sponsors if none of the lower div people would watch the high div matches, visit the site and participate in the competition, because the teams in the lower divs feel that their voice is not heard. Of course it won’t be so dramatic as I decribe it, but I really do think that since the lower divs are the majority of the scene, they should have a voice too.

So what change do you want? Afaik bout 95% of the admin team is not in any top team, only byte and jonni are. I aint sayin kick all adminz coz they r not in pro team, yesh!
Most of the day to day stuff can easily be handled by anyone with more then 1 braincell and pickup exp at best.

However, things that involve rules and or policies in etf2l could possibly be alot better if some “pro” players would help out. I mean even if the voice of those teams in lower divs want 2 demo’s back, it would be the high end players that need to cancel it, coz its absolutely retarded!

All im sayin; a couple of guys who are ACTIVE and are playing in the higher divisions should help make the admins decisions and not some random poll on etf2l forums which my little brother could make a vote in and he hasnt even heard of tf2.

What I mean is, that I don’t see the connection between skill/gamesense and being a good admin. And yes, there should be some admins that know what the higher divs want. But the majority of the players are not in a high div, but they are the major part of the 330 teams competing. And I don’t think there would be any sponsors if none of the lower div people would watch the high div matches, visit the site and participate in the competition, because the teams in the lower divs feel that their voice is not heard. Of course it won’t be so dramatic as I decribe it, but I really do think that since the lower divs are the majority of the scene, they should have a voice too.

So what change do you want? Afaik bout 95% of the admin team is not in any top team, only byte and jonni are. I aint sayin kick all adminz coz they r not in pro team, yesh!
Most of the day to day stuff can easily be handled by anyone with more then 1 braincell and pickup exp at best.

However, things that involve rules and or policies in etf2l could possibly be alot better if some “pro” players would help out. I mean even if the voice of those teams in lower divs want 2 demo’s back, it would be the high end players that need to cancel it, coz its absolutely retarded!

All im sayin; a couple of guys who are ACTIVE and are playing in the higher divisions should help make the admins decisions and not some random poll on etf2l forums which my little brother could make a vote in and he hasnt even heard of tf2.

This is the sad truth. While i wouldn’t go as far as to say that all lower div players are retarded (as hey, im probably in the category your talking about), most people don’t really have the ability to comprehend and think through logically what effects a 2 CL on demos would have, it just so happens most of those players are div1/2/3.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11449513

This thread just illustrates the point.

Its sad but not everyone can properly think this through, this is why a perfect democracy in ANYTHING is a BAD idea.

I see I got my posting-abilities back. I don’t know if I should thank Perry for bringing that issue up so this was done — or express my deepest sympathies for you, since the rest of the guys will hit you on the head for allowing me to post my crap yet again!

I am happy to announce that I’ve received indications today that something drastic might actually be done about this mess. I do not think bashing day (or anyone else) in ETF2L will solve any problems, as much as hinder the inevitable gigantic snowball this has grown to. That very long comment I made on a certain blog (which he later made a ‘meta-entry’ about, just so you might know as to what I am referring to) was done due to me trying to put an issue out and resolve it since I was unable to do so while active on the site. Even if all this has taken quite large proportions (and don’t blame me, I’ve been banned from here), I feel it has amassed to some sort of “let’s bash ETF2L and admins over the head with all sorts of things they or he might have done wrong”.

That was not my intention. I also feel it is kind of riding a bullet that was not aimed towards ETF2L (which I also told this mr. tf2street on steam– and he _pointed out to you all_). This was all about two friends, st8 and deltron — with some support from both their close friends and happy online-acquaintances, starting this site a long time ago. They then let somebody else take over who wanted to run adverts and bring in sponsordeals (cough) who promised MONEY (never mix MONEY into friendship) for the quite large amounts of cash one of these friends (Deltron) shells out for the dedicated box running this site (and etf2l.org is 95% of the box installation-base, storage and traffic — not to mention all the l33t hax0r-attacks that has to be dealt with) every month. Since this guy was kind of sad that a certain someone had not kept his promise, I in turn promised to help him out in getting his fair share (I actually felt so bad about this I paid him from my own pocket — I’ve known deltron for many, many years and know what a genuine nice bloke he is, so I kind of figured he would never push the issue himself).

After doing this MANY times and getting slapped on my wrist for bringing it up, I finally got deleted for some bullshit reason (I presume you’ve all read the long story at a certain place I’m not allowed to mention) — and the followups when a certain someone claimed it was all lies from my part. Since I do not like breaking promises to nice people (morons, I have no problems screwing over — that’s just fun!) I pushed back after this move. I don’t think anyone who has known me for more than a couple of weeks didn’t see that one coming, and who knew all the facts at hand. Don’t get me wrong, I’m no fucking saint in any scenario, but I’d be damned if I started to fuck with nice people for no reason — and when morons (imho) fuck with nice (imho) people, I will fuck them right back.

So please, do not make this into something it is not. Do not bring ETF2L as a league too much into this. As I wrote earlier, this league hosts fun and exciting games for over 2k people every week by itself, without ANYONE touching a single dial on the site (this requires a season to be prepared and setup first, which in itself is quite an enormous workload and the reason there are quite a few number of admins — but since we’ve been 4-5 people doing it for the past 2 seasons while the rest was slacking, I’d say 8-9 admins are quite enough). ST8 and Deneusbeer has done all the work to make it that simple. The rest of the league is just cool ideas, like Mihalchs steam_id auto-reader from screenshots to auto-verify players I was working on bringing in when I got sacked. Or the steam_id auto-validator I was piecing together when I got sacked. Or the logsystem I was finalizing when I got sacked. Of course, these things piss me off to just get snatched out of my hands, but make no mistake. ST8 and lately Deneusbeer has made everything here what it is. No other people are needed, except one. Deltron.

Give Deltron his money though, that’s a promise I’ve still not kept. The rest of us do and did this because it’s fun and some of us have been doing it for MANY MANY years — hence’ we’re also very GOOD at it. That guy has to bleed for it while studying.

Fuck that.

I’d also like to point out that neither ST8, Deltron or anybody else knew I did that post, I did it after reading two posts from self-proclaimed “admins” of this league on the “blog we shall not mention” and felt it was the right atmosphere to post my thoughts in.

That’s it. Thanks for taking your time to read this, even if it’s TL:DR. And keep it clean.