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Quoted from Sketch

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it still does. :D
this is a friendly debate with some overcast rage and slight showers of stupidity, granted. but its still a discussion. post the same topic in gotfrag see how mature the response is.

ive done some playing with the unlocks. the new medic saw + kritz is bloody stupid. there’s no way to easily counter. unless of course your soldier uses the new buff banner thingy. provided he is still alive.

It seems to me that there is just too many viables to counter things with all weapons… How are say “RED” team supposed to know if the “BLUE” medic will run crits+newsaw or standard uber and/or there soldier use gunboats or buff banner or reverse whatever.. I do like the idea of not allowing tf2 to become like cpma but mid battles will soon become a completely paper/scissor/stone lottery if all so called “viable and counterable” weapons are allowed.

At the moment it’s crits/uber left/right main/valley or whatever with some small changes to those setups so bassically you can approach mid something like 4/5 different ways as standard! how are u supposed to counter or calculate the best attack plan when you both have 4/5 routes and 10 game changing weapons to choose from.

end rant/

I think pukz managed to sum it up quite well

Quoted from Tikcus

New saw makes no difference on a mid fight other than medical having 10 less HP

I think the point was that you can have a kritz coming at you every 24 seconds plus medic respawn time. So even if you uber to counter a kritz and kill the enemy medic, there is a decent chance he can spawn and charge kritz again before you can charge uber, depending on which CP you control ofc.

we could always devise a mid battle etiquette. so that its not rock paper scisors and then have free run of most balanced unlocks after?

Quoted from Daggial

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rock, paper, scissors, gun, dragon, sponge, tree, direct hit, buff banner, newsaw, etc, etc :)
http://statics.blolpics.com/photos/1273946174987.jpg?201010071439

Perfect example of how tf2 will go with all new weapons :)

The first meeting at the mid CP has always been and will be chaotic (paper/scissor/stone). Because the players first time see the opponents equipments and routes to the mid CP. But the duration of this chaos is too small.

Then both sides goes to the planing attack/defense; from paper/scissor/stone to Team Fortress. This stage is more longer and predictable for both teams.

Since the 2nd “team+fortress” stage up 95% time of matches, there is no reasons to prohibit new game features. If you are afraid of chaos – you may can’t go to the mid! And make a steel defense at the 2nd point. ^^

Quoted from RaCio

Im pretty sure you got the math wrong there. The vita-saw does not increase the rate at which the uber charges. So with kritz you’re still at a kritz every 38 seconds.

Uber is charged in 40 seconds and Kritz 30 seconds, (25% faster), with a damaged target.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2afZ9xiSSZs

Die still using Kritz and you keep, ‘up to 20%’, so you start with an 8 second advantage and a spawn of maybe less than that.

Kritz charges in 30 seconds, take off 20% = 24 seconds with Vita-saw
Uber charges in 40 seconds, take off 20% = 32 seconds with Vita-saw

So charge Kritz, use kritz, enemy ubers and kills you with still 21% charge unused and you spawn in ‘x’ seconds with 20% charge. For a 30 second charge time that means 24 seconds after linking with someone you have a full charge again.

I’m pretty sure I got my maths correct tbh :p