Forum
High div players joining lower divs during season.
Created 28th May 2014 @ 22:35
Add A Reply Pages: « Previous 1 ... 11 12 13 14 Next »
Quoted from toogyboogy
bob can you explain to me what happens if a previously prem div player has been teamless for a season, and then joins a div 4 team mid season. I didnt see if you mentioned that at all.
and in the end this is just something that isnt really a problem to begin with, not a huge one atleast.
the problems with ETF2L rules already is that there are too many rules to begin with. adding another one for one specific situation will only make it worse. You cant be leanient and strict at the same time.
lets look at this at a different perspective. Christiano Ronaldo for some reason joins leeds, maybe the money was better. But is Ronaldo not allowed to play? Ofcourse not. This whole thing is stupid and whoever wants to put restrictions on players are stupid.
edit: Also feels like people forget that people get better as the season progresses. There might be a team that within the first 3 weeks are now heads beyond the other teams in their division. I really don’t see the difference in that and getting a new better player in your team.
He did there: http://etf2l.org/forum/support/topic-28830/page-10/#post-498272
And your example about Christiano Ronaldo actually is one helping this rule, as there
In general, the players can only be transferred during a transfer window and according to the rules set by a governing body.
Last edited by Kuferl,
Quoted from Kuferl
[…]
He did there: http://etf2l.org/forum/support/topic-28830/page-10/#post-498272
And your example about Christiano Ronaldo actually is one helping this rule, as there
[…]
January transfer window is mid season.
Anyway it’s irrelevant, as far as I am concerned Sideshow’s post sums this up perfectly.
Last edited by Permzilla,
Quoted from toogyboogy
lets look at this at a different perspective. Christiano Ronaldo for some reason joins leeds, maybe the money was better. But is Ronaldo not allowed to play? Ofcourse not. This whole thing is stupid and whoever wants to put restrictions on players are stupid.
edit: Also feels like people forget that people get better as the season progresses. There might be a team that within the first 3 weeks are now heads beyond the other teams in their division. I really don’t see the difference in that and getting a new better player in your team.
The issue is still that allowing high-skilled players play in lower divisions where they have the capability to carry their team could be a very demoralizing experience and make teams disband and players quit comptf2. Now, this might not be all too likely, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to suggest that a lot of players do want to compete against teams of the same caliber, so I don’t get why you would call it stupid, or us stupid. Atleast we are acknowledging something that is an actual problem. What happens in football is completely irrelevant because the two scenes are not even remotely similar.
If a team grows with the season, then they will go up a division next season, that’s the point. A washed-up prem player carrying the team already has that capability even before joining the roster, it’s nothing the season in div3 brought to him. I don’t want to force restrictions upon players, but I don’t want higher div players to have fun on the expenses of the lower div players.
Now, if lets say a former prem player joins a div3 roster, maybe he has no intention to play up to his standards. Maybe he will be just as good as the rest of div3, and that would be fine. But the problem there would be that there is no way in telling if a player will go to his former potential or not, and it could just aswell be an excuse to stomp div3. If he doesn’t want to keen up, he could just join a div1 team, or even a div2 team. I also think that the admins should be able to take responsability to determine whether or not a player fits in a lower divison or not.
From the looks of things, this isn’t a big problem within etf2l atm, so maybe things should be dealt case by case or just let it slip by and have the lower divisions suffer a bit, even though it’s a shame. I’d atleast acknowledge this as an issue if I was in charge, especially if it becomes a bigger problem at one point.
Maybe the best thing overall would be to somehow make this a “good guy” rule, like a norm or a moral standard, and just look down on anyone joining lower divs just to stomp. Instead of limiting EVERYONE to not be able to play in lower divisions, which would also be a shame.
Last edited by PuzZle,
So ignore this if it’s already been mentioned, because I can’t be bothered reading 11 pages for the sake of one suggestion:
Why not just lock rosters after seeding? And if the problem is ‘what if one player drops and you only have 5’ then maybe incorporate a system where players being added must be approved by admins if their profile suggests they have played in n+1 div or something. Could give warnings if they play a class they’ve agreed not to play to be placed in that div/team (e.g. If mightyme was allowed to play in a div5 team so long as he agreed not to play demoman then they would have been given a major warning for that GC incident)
That would require admin discretion, i.e., leadership. They find this unappealing.
Quoted from PuzZle
[…]
The issue is still that allowing high-skilled players play in lower divisions where they have the capability to carry their team could be a very demoralizing experience and make teams disband and players quit comptf2.
i would love to see this happen first…
Quoted from Xearo
So ignore this if it’s already been mentioned, because I can’t be bothered reading 11 pages for the sake of one suggestion:
Why not just lock rosters after seeding? And if the problem is ‘what if one player drops and you only have 5’ then maybe incorporate a system where players being added must be approved by admins if their profile suggests they have played in n+1 div or something. Could give warnings if they play a class they’ve agreed not to play to be placed in that div/team (e.g. If mightyme was allowed to play in a div5 team so long as he agreed not to play demoman then they would have been given a major warning for that GC incident)
nopenopenopenope, you’re killing esports.
Quoted from Tuto
[…]
i would love to see this happen first…
I did say that it was unlikely, but even then it is very off-putting for some to play against. Even if the problem is small and affects few players, it is still a problem. Would also be good to fix a potential problem before it happens, which is why I would not like to see it happen first, unlike you.
Last edited by PuzZle,
Quoted from Tuto
Also huhy can’t do shit, he’s just another mediocre demo Kappa, trust me you have nothing to be worried about
http://logs.tf/296123
http://logs.tf/296174
Quoted from Tuto
And if you see us win first place by the end of the season, i fucking owe you an unusual hat. Goodnight.
I expect nothing less than an unusual Burning Team Captain
actually didn’t want to use these logs tbh.
we probably would have lost even if they had kasabubu or any other div3 demo. and pls just ignore the badlands one, had some internal miscommunication there, so those logs aren’t relevant in any way.
As you already posted them, I’m gonna say this:
The fact that huhy said “Duck did a great job.” (on matchpage) and “Duck is a pretty good demoman, good luck!” kind of sounds like mocking me for this whole thread. i’m not saying here he didn’t, he totally did and i know that duck is a really good demo, easily top div3 imo. but the fact that huhy did 16k damage, so 5k more than duck is still there.
Ofc i knew a lot of people gonna call me a whiner or whatever, and that tutos team gonna find it hilarious, yet adding b33p to their roster, writing that they use b33p as demo on the matchpage, huhy changing his avatar to b33ps and using his name is even more mocking. must have been fun mate. (we knew it was huhy as i checked the steamid, i’m too keen x] ).
anyways, thats all i have to say about these games, not done with the topic itself though
Quoted from Kuferl
actually didn’t want to use these logs tbh.
we probably would have lost even if they had kasabubu or any other div3 demo. and pls just ignore the badlands one, had some internal miscommunication there, so those logs aren’t relevant in any way.As you already posted them, I’m gonna say this:
The fact that huhy said “Duck did a great job.” (on matchpage) and “Duck is a pretty good demoman, good luck!” kind of sounds like mocking me for this whole thread. i’m not saying here he didn’t, he totally did and i know that duck is a really good demo, easily top div3 imo. but the fact that huhy did 16k damage, so 5k more than duck is still there.Ofc i knew a lot of people gonna call me a whiner or whatever, and that tutos team gonna find it hilarious, yet adding b33p to their roster, writing that they use b33p as demo on the matchpage, huhy changing his avatar to b33ps and using his name is even more mocking. must have been fun mate. (we knew it was huhy as i checked the steamid, i’m too keen x] ).
anyways, thats all i have to say about these games, not done with the topic itself though
oh look, highlander players being obnoxious cunts
whats new
There is/ was no real mocking from my side. Thing with b33p name was just to have some fun. It is not like you wouldn’t have checked who it actually was :)
The comment about Duck is a no lie. Afterwards the game i asked who this Duck guy is and Tutorial told me he used to play for KillSwitch. He did play very well.
Tutorial : no man huhy is just better , get the fuck out of my team. And I really do hate my parents for giving me such a shitty name.
CASE CLOSED.
Quoted from Sideshow
Almightybob your proposed rule is far too complex and isn’t based on any kind of evidence at all.
It works on the assumption that the current div ranking system as performed by the admins before every season is fairly accurate and useful, i.e. players in prem are of prem standard, players in div1 are div1 standard etc. Obviously the system isn’t perfect but if it’s close enough then that will be evidence enough of a player’s ability on their main.
You have some players who can literally only play one class (e.g. me, I can only play soldier, everything else is at d4 level or less) and some players who can wreck at any class. You also get some players who could carry simply based on micromanagement, and would be much better on medic than on something combat based.
I get that, which is why I suggested the automatic flagging part of it. Say you wanted to move to a div4 team as scout mid-season. Your transfer would be blocked and flagged to the admins for review. You then approach the admins and say “look I know I’m above div4 but only as soldier, at any other class I’m div4 tops” and the admins can then review it and consider something like “if this had happened preseason would we still have put this team in div4?”. This is the crucial part of it – getting admin review involved in the process throughout the season instead of only at the start.
You also get players who are “offclassing” medic in prem, like 2nuts was a few seasons back or Hat has in the past.
This would actually be covered pretty well by the rule I proposed. As a medic main, every combat class would be considered non-main, so Hat or 2nuts would be able to join any team down to div3 midseason as a combat class. I doubt there are many players div4 and below who offclass up to prem medic (and at what point is it still offclassing?).
You also have massive variability in how much worse a player gets after a season out.
I did in fact mention that a player’s skill level should decay if they take time out to compensate for this. Exactly how much is of course open to debate and reworking. As a ballpark I proposed 1 div after 6 months of no officials, then 1 div per 3 months thereafter. Or of course the returning player could join whatever team they want as long as they do so before the pre-season ranking by admins.
Plus there’s really really small amounts of sandbagging in eu tf2 – this isn’t even a problem.
The first part is true, but I think the opinions of several “victims” in this thread show that it is a problem when it does happen. And if it affects so few cases, why not implement the rule if 99% of the time it affects nobody and 1% of the time it prevents a lower division’s carefully balanced skill level from being upset? The argument goes both ways.
And it’s utterly nonsensical to say “oh it’s only the prem players complaining because they’re mad at the rule” – of course they’re the ones complaining, they’re the only people it affects!
It would everyone from div3 up, more so the higher you get. But it would only affect anyone if they tried to move divs mid-season. If a prem player joins a div6 team before the admins start their rankings, this rule would not come into effect. If the admins review the team and still decide to put them into div6… well then we have a far bigger problem :P
Last edited by almightybob,
Quoted from botman
Well, we lost our main demoman due to his PC breaking down, and some opponents didn’t allow mercs, so we had to get someone to actually join the roster…
So thats the moment you decided to get a prem demo? XD If you have a player 2+ divs higher than your in your team you should have to be set as a fun team imo. Even though it doesn’t mean anything it makes it less bs to lose against :).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6GaPkkGZGw This video explains it very well.
Last edited by dodgydogman,
Add A Reply Pages: « Previous 1 ... 11 12 13 14 Next »
content rss