Forum

Quoted from ashkan

Especially considering that the seemingly superior American scene doesn’t have any problems with it?

The premier teams in America can play with unlocks, and still adapt well, put on a show, create exciting games and pretty much do the basic stuff sonix mentioned above. Our premier teams are perfectly capable of doing it as well, if they had the heart to do it.

Unless people start to claim that Americans are noobs for using unlocks at all, not taking a leaf out of their book is the biggest case of elitism here.

Quoted from FIR

[…]

You know why people think they’re snobs? It’s as if a bartender refusing to sell anything other than wine because beer sucks. It’s as if Usain Bolt won’t run on a track because his shoes can’t perform well on it. It just doesn’t make sense.

Not that I have anything against prem players, but if they like vanlocks and the tried-and-true way of TF2, they shouldn’t impose their views on others who want some creative play than your standard game. In fact, if you can adapt to creative styles of play, then you deserve that premiership title all the more, because then it shows people that you know the game inside out, and are capable of adapting to any situation thrown at you.

Being at the top means you can face any challenge and win, not win by your tried-and-perfected rules. If you want to be the best of the best, then prove that you can beat anything and everything, not refuse to play because it doesn’t fit your standard style of play. If your opponents agree to vanlocks, then it’s good to go. If they don’t, what’s the harm of playing and beating them anyway? Again, it only goes to show that if you can adapt, improve and get creative, the premiership title will be more valuable, since people will actually look at you and say “hey, there’s a premier team who actually tops their games, and can totally deal with any situation thrown at them, they’re definitely good” rather than say “oh, another prem team who qq-ed to ESL.”

Sure, I’m definitely going to take a lot of flack for this, but you must understand that everything changes over time, and the best people are those who can adapt and still remain at the top of their league.

[…]

Having said all that above, a truly good team will be good regardless of what weapons they use, and regardless of their opponent’s weapons.

Now can we PLEASE stop bitching about unlocks?

I didnt read all of it, stopped after the first paragraph.
AGAIN, I’m not the one complaining. prem teams aren’t complaining as well. fact is, prem teams left etf2l and not keep “whining” etc.
YOU are the one complaining. playing with vanilla unlocks and certain rules is good.

certain rules are good for other games as well. if you have people complaining and willing to leave a team for xyz rules then there’s probably something wrong with them.
if you’re in just to play and have “changes” in your pcws/tf2 expirience, you’re more than welcome to go get your own league going with cinnamon rules. I can’t see why prem players and more ( as in NOT JUST PREM PLAYERS ) need to play with these rules against teams that won’t agree to just play with vanilla.

TL;DR: if you wanna have a diff ruleset than vanilla, you can go to another league and knock yourself out. there is / was no reason for etf2l to change it and make the top teams + alot more to leave because other people wanted cinnamon.

ANOTHER IMPORTENT TO READ: did someone ever complain about vanilla / came to a situation where he dropped the league because of it? on the other hand, cinnamon..

Why are all the etf2l players whining about certain players whining? Who are you whining to? The people that already decided not the play here and play ESL + good cups instead?

Quoted from ashkan

[…]

ummm, where did I say that? I can’t even recall anyone else saying that since the season started.

What I said was the countless hours of unlock-specific or map-specific work and discussion shouldn’t be discredited, as it has been, because most admins don’t play prem. Do you not agree with that?

Not a full post, but more of a mention, yes (misread). But can’t you see how there is the same general attitude lying behind it? You can’t deny that it has been used again and again, and has caused a slight underlying attitude towards anyone that has anything to say against the league or the admins choices? (also my comment has nothing to do with unlocks or whether or not you’re doing a good job, simply how it is viewed by the public) I’m pretty sure it was used on vanillatf2 around season start.

These days, there simply seems to be a “this is etf2l, not esl.” (exact quote) attitude thrown at the public whenever something is criticized.

http://www.esl.eu/eu/tf2/6on6/league/season7/rankings/

I bring your attention in particular to the farcical state of division 2a&b and the complete non-existence of a division 6. Doesn’t look to me like original medic unlocks only solves the horrible fold rate problem TF2 has had since always.

Thanks to Shrike410 for linking me the above, I couldn’t even find the tf2 section on esl let alone the league after googleing esl, was nice to see that the future of tf2 is so well promoted by those entrusted with it.

Quoted from Spike Himself

[…]

That really isn’t true though. It is only perceived as such, because when there is a decision to be made regarding any matter, one of the two parties involved is going to face a disappointment (for which they then have only their expectations to blame). Said party will from that point on hate the decision maker forever.

Then comes the fact that a great deal of this community consists of teens and early-twentiers, who claim to be as mature and omniscient as they might be 10 years from now. They would rather get angry at decisions made in the opponent’s favour than actually look at the case objectively and perhaps realise or at least try to understand where the decision came from or what it was based on.

Fact remains, admins do put in a lot of work. Free time that they donate to the community. It isn’t used as an ‘excuse’ to cover up anything, but it’s still true.

To give an example; every monday we set default dates for all the teams that couldn’t be arsed (or whatever other reasons they may have) to schedule their games. This takes literally 5 hours if you do it all by yourself. Yes, 5 hours. It takes this long because to set a default date, a lot of factors have to be taken into account (such as timezones/availability, already scheduled matches, etc, etc). This can easily take up to 5 minutes per match (though admittedly in most cases it’s a bit less).
Imagine having done this; you’ve spent 5 hours of your free time doing work that others couldn’t be bother to do.
Five hours.
Got it? Right.
Then in the evening, a random team leader contacts you on IRC and starts swearing at you because the default date for HIS match is incredibly stupid, it does not give HIM an advantage and it has nothing taken into account (and a whole lot of other insults that aren’t fit to be posted here).
That’s all well and good, really; we accept that people may not always be happy with what has happened, and perhaps we even made a mistake! But was there really a need to get angry about it? Could you not just kindly ask why the date was set as such? Why the attitude?
I’m very much leaning towards saying you make a valid point, except it’s exactly the other way around!

People accuse admins of all sorts of things and forget to look at things objectively.

I hope the fact that I’m new to the admin team puts me in a less biased light.

I am in no way saying you’re not doing a ton of work, nor am i undermining it. But can you not agree that having done so much work, builds up an attitude where some admins think they have a RIGHT to do things how they wish? (This does not mean daily choices, but choices that affect the community on a whole) Because there IS an attitude, no matter the reason behind it. JUST SAYING.

get back in the kitchen illii