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FEEDBACK FOR GORGE:
Created 12th January 2010 @ 10:28
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Your post was about the only overall negative one that seemed to have looked at things from a more balanced perspective, as all your posts tend to be Jones. Still your dislike for non standard classes is hampering your opinion. TF2 has a fairly low skill celling for most of the classes and is far more about tactics gamesense(tm) and team play overall. Which is why top teams can play massively off class and still destroy lower end ones, most of this games key skills are independent of class. This is why I don’t see the involvement of these classes as a problem. A lot of people have a lot of fun playing them and are good enough to help their team win when they do why not let them do such more often?
Maybe because rej will run almost any class at any given point if one of our 6 can play it and we think it will help us causes my view to be that way. But surely breaking up the constant 2 scout 2 soldier demo and medic monotony is a good thing long term since change is the spice of life and all.
P.S gods I sound like an Obama advocate with all my talk of change :/
The demos/games that I saw (before people started actually playing/testing Gorge) had the main classes featuring basically as normal, with a heavy swing towards sniper vs sniper duels.
I did see spy, engie at all different places, and a couple of not really effective uses of heavy. So it wasn’t like the main class lineups were really disrupted. And parts of the map, like the gates and around the bridge, with all the flanking, had some nice DMing going on.
The only one drastic class change I could make a case for was scout or soldier for sniper and scout/sol for engie at various sporadic points.
Interestingly, I didn’t see an engie and sniper being too effective on B like people seem to be saying is too strong. But this was probably only the first or second time these teams had played it together.
Will be interesting to see how the metagame of it develops, if at all.
I agree with your points about game sense and its fundamental importance in TF2. Game sense means using your initiative. Playing engineer or heavy as a primary class means you can make quick innovative decisions, but you have little ability to capitalise on them. Instead you have to resort to very negative and very dull tactics to make the most of the classes strengths. Don’t get me wrong, if you’re playing scout defending last and you see an opportunity to quick switch to pyro and butt fuck the whole team, then great. That is what TF2 is about.
The main reason for the negative focus on this map is because critical analysis stimulates change. There are many good points on this map, and I think it could work. However, a lot of issues require addressing (imo).
I’d just like to add. The best part of the map is the area between attacking spawn and CP1. Making a forward respawn for defence would mean more time spent playing this area. The duller last point in its current state is where most of the map is played. A forward spawn for the attacking team could help this. Due to the massive distance between spawn and point, the attacking team is very reluctant to get a pick, because a single death can delay an attack by 60-120 seconds.
Last edited by Jones,
forward spawns for both teams?…
Definitely forward spawns for both teams – for defence it should lead into the big hall before point B, possibly being placed in the hallway that is blocked off until A is capped. Speaking of that hallway, I see no reason for it to be blocked off… all it does is punish spies, pyros and to an extent scouts for getting behind the enemy. The attack forward spawn should be placed to the far right of point A (where the big whitish wall with the fence is), with one exit leading into the canyon and one further back near the entrances to the large A point (near the boxes that let you peek over to the first area).
A tiny bit more sniper cover is a possibility. The first large area is a bit open – there’s not much cover from the right of the map, and it feels quite empty in front of the crates/to the side of the house with health in.
I’m not sure how much time capping A gives, but if it is too long, shorten it. It should be the same time as gravelpit.
The upper decks on point B feel very claustrophobic and any attempt to attack from there is thwarted by spam or a single sticky trap. There could be another doorway leading into the room with the small health FROM the room with the big health in the hall before point B. Simply widening the exits would also help.
The hall before point B also feels a little too open, letting defence take potshots with sniper or spam too easily. Copy paste a 4x barrel thing (that are scattered everywhere in that room) on the side of the door on the right (from attackers perspective). This should give a little cover into the hallway on the right as well.
My feedback: fucking awesome :D
A refreshing change from 5CP, and it’s nice to see the other classes more often as well :D
doesnt look appealing to play tbh, its nice to look at but whoopdedoo =[
too short and rly a pub map in all
if you’re playing scout defending last and you see an opportunity to quick switch to pyro and butt fuck the whole team, then great. That is what TF2 is about.
tf2 is all about butt fucking?
NAIS.
all the sniper vs. sniper battles are keeping xizk very happy.
so far we’ve been playing it against equal-div teams and I’ve seen tonnes of opportunities to use kritz, we’ve had tactics (not bloody 2 engy tactics) that use no scouts at all and others that we’ve held the first yard with, and there’s a LOT of class switching and changing depending on the situation that requires a helluva lot of Gamesense(tm) that people here talk so much about (especially defensively).
it’s also heavy on action; gravelpit consists of lots of waiting around for uber to build whereas with this map there’s a lot of combat before and after ubers/kritz that let skilled players shine and often swing a fight without focusing on the uber timing slugfest.
Too wide an open, makes sniping eez. Could use forward spawns and maybe a more direct route to last on the left.
We’ve played it 3 times now and it’s been really fun. We managed to defend the first yard one round so it’s definately possible. The second round they managed to cap both points and we got a better time when it was our turn to attack.
The class lineup we have been using is soldier,heavy,sniper,medic,demo and engi. It has worked very well seeing as we have won every time we’ve played gorge against same div teams. Our opponents have used class lineups such as two heavies,two snipers or two engis etc. Most round have been pretty fast paced and we haven’t really had any problems capping the last point against two engis and a sniper.
Gorge has turned out to be on of my favorite maps.
george*
and yeah it needs forward spawns.
It’s cp_gorge :P
It is good in a lower to middle levels, don’t know how is it in higher levels. It’s not so hard to defend, BUT it’s easy to spam sentry guns. Kritz krieg and/or Buffbanner is really good for this map. It’s nice to see almost no scouts on this map, just because it’s not giving any profit to the team. Even a spy or sniper would be more better in that map. Heavy is going to be massively used in that map for sure.
Map’s nice
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