Forum

@Krakyn, a sniper in conjunction with the sentrygun/two sentryguns makes it pretty hard to try to go upstairs and spam the sentry without popping uber.

E: fffffffffffff next page

just remove it from the pool .__.

There should be forward spawns for both teams from what I saw.

It takes far too long for the defending team to get to the doors, and in that time they can not set up a sentry to any effect, so you rely on using basic classes (going against koeitjes point) = soldier, sniper, scout, medic, demo. You can not set up on point A because it’s far too wide and far too many places to attack from, it would result in scattering your team making it far too easy to push. This could be fixed by adding a forward spawn for defending team so they have more time to set up at the doors and can use a more varied lineup. The last point is far too easy to defend when you are set up properly and the only real way to take it with ease is to wipe the enemy on A then get to B before they can setup. This leads to inconsistency and even a slight “luck” factor. Also a good sniper (as rake pointed out) on last with a sentry makes the point incredibly hard to push. Also the pure size of the point means that the medic can sit slightly back and delay ubering for an incredible amount of time. Then, once you are wiped it takes a great deal of time getting back to that point again, giving even more time for the enemy to organise and set up again. Sure, you can use an engi for teleporters when attacking but that means you lose a stronger pushing class.

Map issues:

– point A is too wide and there are no real good sentry spots
– map is too long to not have forward spawns
– not enough cover at point A from snipers
– point B is too large and all the entrances are large and have no suprise factor (you can see the enemy coming for a good 10 seconds in advance)
– too many sentry spots on B

just remove it from the pool .__.

I’ll be on when I get back from work Extremer.

I think that some of the points that Gibbz raised are legitimate concerns, especially that the medic can hang back and “wait” in safety until people jump onto B. Could people try and pay attention to this? Does it work? Is it foolproof? Is it even worse than the “safe zones” that medics can use on Well/Fastlane/Freight last points?

Quoting yourself won’t help your point, daNNNN.

We played this map once when half of our team didn’t even know the map. But from what I saw it will be a good map where every class can get some playtime, once some minor things are fixed. I don’t recall them all but one huge was the aforementionend spawns.

I like already much better than fastlane.

Krakyn believe it or not, not every everyone has a “hidden agenda.” I’m saying it how I see it.

“A lot of the points that have been raised against it so far reek of teams trying the default class layout, failing, then blaming the map”

Why are classes like engineer, heavy and pyro avoided? Some reasons are because they reduce skill ceilings and require far less skill than Scout, Sniper, Spy, Demo, Soldier and Medic to master. If you want to hold mouse 1 down and stand still, or hold mouse 1 down and w like an idiot in competitive tf2, maybe you have a hidden agenda to make everyone the same skill in a luck pre-dominating spam fest.

Classes like Heavy, Engineer and Pyro should never be primary classes. Gravelpit is currently better than Gorge because destroying 2 sentry guns on point C is easy and the defending team is fucked if they go down -> hence the reason nobody does it. Gorge differs because the two engies can hide in spawn and change to heavy/pyro/soldier, wait for the sgs to go down (if at all) and rain shit down onto the enemy from the height advantage over the point. Gorge currently promotes the use of relatively low skilled classes especially around point 2.

A good point on Gorge is the ability to utilise sniper and spy. I see it more as a highlander map than 6v6.

I’m not advocating a “stale” vanilla TF2. But 2 x Engy, Pyro and Heavy has no place as primary classes in TF2 and I don’t support maps that encourage this.

In addition – comparing Gravelpit point C to Gorge point 2:

• Gravelpit point C has a massive height advantage.
• Gravelpit point C is isolated and has no easy or quick access to resupply.
• Gravelpit point C is venerable from 4 entrances, with choke points in a 180 degree field of view.
• Some of the choke points are difficult to spam from point C and the visibility of them is low.
• Running out of ammo on point C is a common problem.
• The attacking team can continue attacking if they choose as the spawn timings make it possible to continue an attack with a second life while the enemy still have deaths.

• CP 2 on Gorge has a height advantage.
• The defence points have easy and quick access to resupply.
• The Resupply area also has a height advantage and is hard to block access to for attacking team.
• The defending team has “insert here” choke points in a 90 degree field of view to monitor.
• Most of the choke points are easy to spam with high visibility.
• Running out of ammo for defending team is near impossible.
• The attacking team has to go for an all out attack without the chance to capitalize on a semi-successful attack as the time to get back to an attacking position is longer than the time it takes for a whole team to spawn.

I think once teams start to master defense strats, this point will be seriously difficult to cap. Only time will tell.