Forum

+1

It’s funny how you talk about freedom of speech when it’s their forum.. But it doesn’t change the arguments, and the fact that the admins are being a bag of dicks.

You are correct sir, it is their forum. Even so, people do expect to be able to talk freely. And I want this league to progress, and denying freedom of speech from it won’t be the factor that makes this league go to incredible heights.

Even so, Ive been admin on various forums and public servers before, even if someone made an incredibly offensive post directly to me, I’d still not go all 1984 on their ass? This far less than that. This is someone incredibly annoyed boiling over and spilling the beans.

edit: just realised i forgot to put “not go all” at that the the above paragraph. >.<

you’re ducking the issue by about 2 foot.

Freedom of speech is a very high and mighty cause, but it doesn’t really exist anywhere. The admins allowed tf2street to post about his blog when people were criticising the running of the league in their interviews, it wasn’t until Gryzor posted more serious stuff that the threads were locked.

It certainly won’t exist anywhere if everyone thinks that way. Right now, tf2street is doing what should have been done ages ago. Criticizing the league, making people think about the league they are playing in. The thread about tf2street in etf2l got 27 pages before it was locked, and that was within how long a time… like 1 week? He is trying to make the competetive scene flourish, unlike a certain head admin. Just having 330 teams stuck together in a league doesn’t mean you can just stop the advancement. GET SOME SPONSORS! GET COVERAGE!

The “stuff” Gryzor posted about was clearly serious and needed to get out to the public eyes. The “stuff” needs handling from the adminteam, not just Gryzor. The reason why he put it out the public eye was because he felt that something had to be done with the case.

I hope you can understand that there’s no way that we should be posting internal discussions, especially something as sensitive as finances/sponsorship. The admin team has to make difficult decisions and then present them to a community, up to half of which may have wanted it to go the other way. If we were to start saying admin X voted this way, admin Y voted this way, it splits the admin team down the middle, makes it impossible for us to conduct anything privately and invites people to try and win favour with admins they feel are representing their side.

When allegations of corruption are alleged in any sort of meaningfully truthful manner (as they have been, both relating to the finances and to the rule-making decisions of the league), transparency is the only way to dispel them. People already try to win favor with admins, the issue really would not change all that much if people “knew.” Here’s something honest – most people already know, because very few of your admins are shut-in about the goings-on of the league. Many of them are more than willing to open up to people in the community who they trust and those things leak out. It can not be stopped or changed unless you turn ETF2L into a dictatorsorship – and while I personally will not be the one making the “heh oh wait” joke here, many think it already is a dictatorship.

The admins allowed tf2street to post about his blog when people were criticising the running of the league in their interviews, it wasn’t until Gryzor posted more serious stuff that the threads were locked.

Gryzor’s “serious stuff” is still, at its core, a criticism of the league in an effort to make it change. He told me himself that the sole purpose for revealing it was to get Deltron the compensation he is due, not to cause drama or bring about the downfall of the league.

Thanks for the civility, Snowie :)

Cheers,
tf2culdesac

I love Ziggy. He’s going to stab me in the face @LAN just to show that he cares.

“I’ve not written a single word on the ETF2L forums since I was deleted that could be viewed as even REMOTELY hostile — yet I find myself _BANNED_ from the league.”

This is an other issue, would any of you admins care to share the reasoning behind banning Gryzor? This is getting out of hands if you start banning people, just because you don’t like them. What has he done that makes him deserve his ban?

Its their forum they can do what they like, all you can do is use another forum and hope they listen, whining on here wont do anything tbh, just move to resuppy and when they notice they are losing their fan base they will make some changed, maybe.

“I’ve not written a single word on the ETF2L forums since I was deleted that could be viewed as even REMOTELY hostile — yet I find myself _BANNED_ from the league.”

This is an other issue, would any of you admins care to share the reasoning behind banning Gryzor? This is getting out of hands if you start banning people, just because you don’t like them. What has he done that makes him deserve his ban?

Its their forum they can do what they like, all you can do is use another forum and hope they listen, whining on here wont do anything tbh, just move to resuppy and when they notice they are losing their fan base they will make some changed, maybe.

Whining here exactly will do something, because people actually read this forum.

Of course they can do what they want with it. But when someone gets banned because he was an admin, then upset someone and got removed from the adminteam, I’d like to at least know if they have better reasoning behind it! The one thing that everyone here wants is for this league, this game to progress, and banning people mindlessly won’t get us there.

The problem is, admins can’t win with these types of debates. I hope you can understand that there’s no way that we should be posting internal discussions, especially something as sensitive as finances/sponsorship. The admin team has to make difficult decisions and then present them to a community, up to half of which may have wanted it to go the other way. If we were to start saying admin X voted this way, admin Y voted this way, it splits the admin team down the middle, makes it impossible for us to conduct anything privately and invites people to try and win favour with admins they feel are representing their side.

With regards to the flaming of admins, I don’t understand how you can think it’s fair that an admin should be allowed to be abused? Yes, sometimes things are said as jokes, but it would be better if people assumed that talking to people they don’t know, in a public forum, is very different to talking to their friends in a private irc channel. One thing that you might think is a joke might very well be interpreted differently, especially when it came along with a wall of derision and abuse (regardless of whether you felt the decision on the sandman was wrong, the abuse was never justified or constructive).

Freedom of speech is a very high and mighty cause, but it doesn’t really exist anywhere. The admins allowed tf2street to post about his blog when people were criticising the running of the league in their interviews, it wasn’t until Gryzor posted more serious stuff that the threads were locked.

I hope some of this helped answer some of your points. If we can keep this constructive, maybe we can actually help each other out here.

How long have you been an admin, Snowie? :D
2 days?