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Cheaters second chance
Created 23rd September 2009 @ 09:37
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I’m against perma banning at least when they are first caught. Everyone deserves a second chance. Except when they cheat again, then ban their asses for life.
Well the problem with that is that you will never now if a player still cheats, that will affect your gameplay in matches etc at least for me it will.
A good way of solving it, but have you considered the amount of work this needs. Assuming every POV has to be watched by some kind of anti-cheat admin. Its 10 hours of watching every season, times the amount of ex-cheaters that return to the league. And last time I looked, the anti-cheating crew was already running thin, keep in mind they also have to look at new suspects.
Who says an admin has to watch every single demo? There are plenty of hack-busters around :P
humans make mistakes.
dont forget AC admins are humans too, just to mention.
Last edited by berg,
A good way of solving it, but have you considered the amount of work this needs. Assuming every POV has to be watched by some kind of anti-cheat admin. Its 10 hours of watching every season, times the amount of ex-cheaters that return to the league. And last time I looked, the anti-cheating crew was already running thin, keep in mind they also have to look at new suspects.
Who says an admin has to watch every single demo? There are plenty of hack-busters around :P
I have no idea how they actually do it, was just assuming they had to.
As Norris said, perma-ban will only make things worse.
If a true cheater returns after the ban ends, he’s in his rights and shouldn’t be ostracized. It’s like going to jail – when you are out again (if the punishment was right), you paid your debt. If no one ever offers you a job because you’ve been in jail, you will probably become an active criminal again – after all, you have no choice, you tried to be honest, but no one accepted you.
Obviously, close monitoring should be performed, and if the cheater cheats again, punishment should be exemplar.
However, some cheaters were not even cheaters, certainly. All you have is a a couple of admins saying they cheated, but you have no evidence, and without evidence, I would never ever believe that, for example, these 2 so-called cheaters cheated:
-Kondor. I don’t know him and never talked to him. But or he cheated on season 3 (when he was voted 2nd best scout in europe) and admins were blind and stupid, or he would never cheat in the next season, and he even played way worse than in s3.
-Fyrh. Talked to him everyday for 5 months, 3 hours a day at least. From all the people I ever met in internet, he would be the last guy ever I would have suspicions about.
Last edited by Sekhel,
I for one dont understand why people compare cheating in TF2 with jail and shit. (Guess im just stupid :D)
TF2 is an E-sports game, at least to some of us(not a big one, but alot of us take it seriously).. Shouldnt it be comparable to other sports instead? Like olympics etc. Don’t ppl that get caught for steroids get permban from competitions? IDK.. :/
Just read a bit on it. They actually get a second chance, most of the time. Usually after a TWO year penalty and if they ever get caught again its a lifetime penalty.
No fan of letting a cheater back in, but if a rule needs to be then a 2nd time caught lifetime ban should apply. No pardon!
Last edited by Fanva,
As Norris said, perma-ban will only make things worse.
If a true cheater returns after the ban ends, he’s in his rights and shouldn’t be ostracized. It’s like going to jail – when you are out again (if the punishment was right), you paid your debt. If no one ever offers you a job because you’ve been in jail, you will probably become an active criminal again – after all, you have no choice, you tried to be honest, but no one accepted you.
Obviously, close monitoring should be performed, and if the cheater cheats again, punishment should be exemplar.However, some cheaters were not even cheaters, certainly. All you have is a a couple of admins saying they cheated, but you have no evidence, and without evidence, I would never ever believe that, for example, these 2 so-called cheaters cheated:
-Kondor. I don’t know him and never talked to him. But or he cheated on season 3 (when he was voted 2nd best scout in europe) and admins were blind and stupid, or he would never cheat in the next season, and he even played way worse than in s3.
-Fyrh. Talked to him everyday for 5 months, 3 hours a day at least. From all the people I ever met in internet, he would be the last guy ever I would have suspicions about.
+1
humans make mistakes.
dont forget AC admins are humans too, just to mention.
http://www.wegame.com/watch/bErg_natural_aim/
I’m sorry i had to :)
Theres a lot of good points about that harder punishment for those “career cheaters”, but one problem with that would be “why would a div 2 player get a harder punishment for using the same cheat as that div 4 player”. So it could be hard to use such a style of punishment.
lifetime ban wouldn’t be to smart either, seeing that he can actually never come back even tho he changed his mind, attitude ect. Just ramp up the ban length to two and a half year or something, or that a player is banned for X seasons.
Last edited by drleånn,
@ berg: you got banned for hacking, get over it.
@ “admins and people being blind and/or stupid for not noticing kondor’s hacks: It’s absolutely normal for the large majority of the community to have no clue that he hacks.
Even many of the top players watching footage of him using an aimbot probably wouldn’t notice anything fishy about it. I won’t go into more detail on this matter, I’ll just end by saying that an aimbot is not at all like your average css kid spinning around getting headshots through walls ;)
This is also why there are no “proofs” (it’s proof, get it right). It would create massive controversy as there would be tons of people shouting that there was nothing wrong with it.
Last edited by Anathema,
@ Dr.Leon this video dont prove anything
@ Anathema its ur opinion and u can have it
Tbh, no, cheaters shouldn’t get a second chance. They’ve already wasted so much of the AC’s time by getting them busted in the first place, and will only be the source of evne more wasted time, as people will continuously accuse them and people will always have some degree of suspicion towards them. I mean, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, and the same thing goes here.
If someone cheats once, sure, he wasted everybody’s time. If he is allowed to cheat twice (and then caught), he’s wasted a lot more time and effort for everyone. I for one don’t want AC admins getting caught up into all the accusations of returning cheaters instead of just removing them as they’ve fucked up so our AC admins can focus on other dodgy personas.
edit: And Berg. Well… :)
Last edited by BERSERKER,
one problem with that would be “why would a div 2 player get a harder punishment for using the same cheat as that div 4 player”. So it could be hard to use such a style of punishment.
Because div2 games have bigger virtual value in terms of chances to get MGO contracts, sponsorships and even cash. They are closer to that kind of stuff than div4 games.
Also, people can rise up to div4 quite quickly, leaving a higher chance for “impulse” cheating. But getting to div2 isn’t very straightforward, usually players like this have several months of 6v6 history. That makes the case more towards a “career cheater”.
Of course, everything should be handled case by case and not blindly just looking at the division. If the guy’s been playing four seasons in a div6 team he should know well enough not to cheat.
Last edited by compton,
It’s simple. You ban a cheater for life, they change their steam and come back. You temp ban a cheater, you can keep a close eye on them as they return with their original steam. I don’t see the problem with returning cheaters, as long as they are watched closely, which pretty much the whole community does automatically.
It’s simple. You ban a cheater for life, they change their steam and come back. You temp ban a cheater, you can keep a close eye on them as they return with their original steam. I don’t see the problem with returning cheaters, as long as they are watched closely, which pretty much the whole community does automatically.
exactly ;)
If I kill a man (put a case, that was an accident), I have a second chance. If I cheat in TF2, I haven’t. Oh come on…
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