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Final divisions woot!
Created 21st September 2009 @ 09:45
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What? And then rape for 2 years untill we can finally compete at the level we play at (when the game is prob dead)?
…
Btw I heard [eLD] is going to fold, any truth in that?
For the first point: If this was a real sportslike organization, there wouldn’t be new teams founded easily by all top players, but players would sign up to teams at the level they want to play and are skilled for. Then teams wouldn’t fold easily neither, cause their license and league spots would be needed. No more folding a team today to form a new team with half the old players 1 month later to complain about not getting a div 2 spot or demanding div 1 spot.
To the second point: where would you hear something like that. eLD has been around since 1997 and our TF2 squad is running since release in 2007, playing ETF2L since season 2. We have no intention whatsoever to fold. I’d rather recruit a completely new team than fold our squad.
During summer we had a break to allow ppl go into vacation and hang out in the sun, do some drinking in beer gardens and stuff, you know, RL it’s called. Now that ETF2L season is starting again, we started playing again.
About half our team going “poof” as you put it, in fact we lost one of our soldiers and one scout who had not been in main lineup for a while left as well. We have one more player injured right now, which is why we recruited 2 new players, where youngblood has been playing for eLD in the past already.
Considering we lost our demoman in week 2 of season 5 and had to replace our medic in midseason and still managed to stay in div 2, I don’t think it unrealistic to perform reasonably this season.
If you just knew, how many ppl are so pissed off by the team-swapping in upper divisions and folding of teams that could easily run on if they’d just recruit someone to replace leaving ppl…
I do get your point, ydor.
But its a game.. we dont get paid, no contracts.. its all about the fun! And if someone thinks playing with his current team is no more fun (for what so ever reasons), hes allowed to leave and join another team or found a new one.
-> your comparison with football lacks for so many reasons/facts
Last edited by mvp.,
Yeah, like TDR did. TDR survived. Yet we get bummed aside for new and reformed teams. But doesn’t matter anymore, I think there are clans in our divs that can give us a good game and even take a map on a good day (or bad day for us :P).
Last edited by Koeitje,
I do get your point, ydor.
But its a game.. we dont get paid, no contracts.. its all about the fun! And if someone thinks playing with his current team is no more fun (for what so ever reasons), hes allowed to leave and join another team or found a new one.
-> your comparison with football lacks for so many reasons/facts
That’s valid as long as you compare it only to professional football.
But let’s take it to a german example, as we’re both germans: There are so many amateur football players, that only play for fun. Still there are leagues and divisions. You start “Kreisliga C” with a new team, point. No matter whether the players in your team already played “Bezirksliga”, “Verbandsliga” or “2. Bundesliga” before.
I agree we all play here for fun. But if you played for months with a team and then find out they are all dicks and you want to play with ppl you like more, why not search in existing teams for ppl you like? I have friends in quite a few good teams. Ok, I’m in no way good enough anymore to play on top lvl, but a while ago when I was still main medic for eLD I could easily have found a new team to join, with nice ppl inside, if I had found eLD lacking. There’s no reason at all to keep founding new teams to play exactly with the ppl you want to play with.
And at professional level there are contracts and payments. In TF2 there are no salaries (yet). But you earn money by prizes or sponsoring. In other games the top teams like dignitas or SK pay their professional players salaries.
Correct me if i’m wrong. So you’re saying ydor, if your team folded and you reformed/made a new team/whatever, you’d find it fair and your time well spent having to play several seasons in one or more divisions lower than the level your team currently is capable of playing? That’s like saying Vale should have been put in div6 to work their way up last season, so pardon me for being confused.
What? Errr… Fortress is forever. Who cares about TF2, as long as we get to play fortress. There will be other fortress-games after TF2. Since the day online-gaming was founded in this universe (and by that, I mean the date quakeworld and the netcode therein that made it possible was released — thank you Zoid!) there has been TeamFortress played. Every day. For over 11 years.
This is why when people like Ydor writes something (which I personally played Fortress against on quite a few occasions some 7-8 years ago), I read their messages two times to make sure I understood it all. You obviously should too, kids.
ETF2L will promote stability over skill on every turn, since this is a spoken decree from “the one to rule them all”. And the reason should be obvious.
Last edited by gryzor,
I do agree, but its not CS or Quake. It’s TF2.
As long as theres no salaries/contracts/success teams can and will fold and reform in different constellation. Doesnt mean thats a good thing, not at all, but its the way it is.
Im glad there are players like u, ydor, trying to keep their team alive.. thats formidable.
edit:
@ gryzor: u totally miss the point. fortress is forever blah blah.. every new fortress game brings new teams.. i could count it on one hand which tfc teams sticked together for tf2.
and if u really think TF2 has ANYTHING to do with good old Fortress, but the name.. id be shocked.
Last edited by mvp.,
it’s quite simple: all power to the teams/clans, less power to single players.
for example: (clan) eLD “earned” their div2-spot throughout several seasons.
if it would happen now that 4 or 5 guys leave eLD for whatever reason these guys have to look for another _excisting_ div1/2/3 – team if they are willing to play mid/high. the clan eLD would keep their div2-spot what would make it easier to find replacement for the leavers.
that would support stable clans and make it more difficult for leavers/joiners.
Correct me if i’m wrong. So you’re saying ydor, if your team folded and you reformed/made a new team/whatever, you’d find it fair and your time well spent having to play several seasons in one or more divisions lower than the level your team currently is capable of playing? That’s like saying Vale should have been put in div6 to work their way up last season, so pardon me for being confused.
What he’s saying is that if the rule was in place then it would make more sense for the players from folding high skilled clans to join existing clans around their skill level, than to start a new team. This has the benefit of filling missing slots in existing teams’ rosters, promoting further stability at the top. It’s not so much about punishing new teams as it is about making sure teams stick together, and meaning there’s less of a problem fitting new clans into places where they may deserve to be on skill, but others deserve to be through league results.
You cannot trust the “system” model to keep the divisions as much fun as they should be. Teams change so much from week to week, month to month: by the time a new ETF2L season starts, the results of last season are, in many cases, borderline irrelevant.
Because we have a small, fragile scene, it’s my opinion that it’s in all of our interests to at least ensure the very best competitive standard possible every season. What does that mean exactly? It means putting teams in the right places to have the best/most competitive/most fun games possible. This is especially important considering ETF2L _is_ our scene. Where we post, where we play. Few of the top teams actually play anywhere else but EMS. Which is a sad reflection of how anemic our scene is and why it needs help and a lot of effort from admins and community at every turn.
The “mid+” (for lack of a better term) teams play in a different way from the rest of the scene and so the way the league is structured for them should reflect that. We can’t fit that part of the scene into the current model because you have teams like Rejects in div 3, and arguably even DCSB in div 2 when they’re better than teams in div 1 already.
Obviously, these things are subject to massive change, but we should be seeding teams on their performance NOW, not what we guess they’re gonna be in 2 months time, or if they finished 2nd, 3rd or 4th in a random div 3 last season.
And, if there’s too many teams for division 2 places, ETF2L should evolve with the scene and accommodate them in better ways than they currently are now.
That’s why in the proposal myself and m0re made to the admins about league restructuring made great efforts to reward _both_ stability and skill. And our model also acknowledges that, to some degree, the current system HURTS stability by teams being placed incorrectly – both too high and too low.
The teams that earned their places should stay where they are (in the case of eLD) or advance (in the case of promotions), no doubt. But there’s also no doubt in my mind that this season, and the ones following, could be better for all involved if we took the courage to change it and evolve with the teams, rather than act against and potentially stifle them.
Last edited by JimmyBreeze,
from personal experiences,
the issue is players get a job,social life,gfriend,or even get poached from the Higher divs’
as a leader all you can do is try to bring in new talent and hope with time they can play at the level you had built up to with your prev roster,
its a frustaiting situation but all clans suffer these problems and there isnt a great deal clan leaders can do about that.
regarding the seedings yeah the admins are not happy players jump clans etc and the stability isn there but tbh that is the Nature of online games
and this comunity,it wont change and will always be like that
regarding the teams in the lower divs because A they lost members and just struggled to stay in the division they where in ,i personally couldnt manage it with the amount of player changes i had last season,
we didnt deserve to stay in div2 on results
but the current Roster is capable of beating high div2 clans and even some low div1 teams
but something needs to change cos quite frankly your out of touch with the seen imo
and the current divisions for this season will actually be quite dull if im honest especially looking at div1, and div3
Loco: So you mean we should have taken a look at your ROSTER and say, “hey, let’s not promote these clans from div3, let’s take these people instead — judging by their roster, they are more WORTHY to a div2 spot!”.
Is this what you mean we should do?
Because, you know… There’s 330 teams, many with more than 6 players. Let’s say 8 to make it somewhat low, but probably good average (since some have over 30 members, a few just have 7-8). 8*330 is still over 2600 players. You SERIOUSLY mean we should track ALL 2600 players down and THEN compare them against each-other and ENVISION how they might do DIVISION-wise? I don’t think that’s entirely correct figure, since ETF2L has over 5000 registered players.
I presume not, so please let me know.
Last edited by gryzor,
i think,
you should not ask people to submit results and proof of results if you have no intention of actully doing anything with them,
its a bit of a joke in all honesty
i could of saved my time fucking about takeing screens and trying to prove consistant results when clearly your not interested in what teams results are what so ever,
but hey that’s just my point im sure other clans feel the same after submitting results and are in diferent divisions,
i thought the idea was over the summer look at the teams there results and performances and add them accordingly to the correct division
clearly not the case here is it Gryzor
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