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Quoted from Solid

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:^)

funny u give that example instead of war or kaidus. ofc players like yourself and smzi love this update, its an indirect super buff to scouts, you can now destroy heavies and demos so easly its not even funny

I just feel bad for the demos who has been working on their style for so many years relying on the sticky damage.

As an example,i’m really aggressive sniper because i know that 150dmg and noscope if needed kills most classes since it makes 200dmg. And i have managed to get my style to suit me best for couple years now.
Now lets say they would reduce quick headshots to 100dmg and noscopes to 35dmg.

Because of my style i would be so fucked up,becuase i just dont like/cant play passive sniper as well.

This is pretty much the same situation for the demomans.
Such slow class as demo just dont have enough time to wait 2seconds before full damage

It’s the same shit as back when open plugin could give VAC ban, same nerd tears is shed now, you will get used to it trust me, give it 2 weeks or 3

Quoted from MARS^

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that only changed something for a minority of people and it didn’t change the overall meta of the game.

edit: minority compared to the amount of people the demo change affects

I know what you mean, but I mean like, it’s not like the sticky launcher is useless now, this will just make the demo players play smarter now, position themselves better instead of relying on heavy death match and damage output.

It will definitely change the meta, but it doesn’t mean to something worse. People will probably figure out smarter ways to go on with this now. I don’t know, I don’t play demoman, but this is my thought.

Why wouldn’t it be viable to request that people have TFTrue installed on a server before it meets the requirements to be an ETF2L matchserver? Installing TFTrue is simply a matter of putting two files into the addons folder, and as a plugin (rather than a mod) it will never need to be updated in the event of a game update.

The argument that the configs are something that EVERYONE has is not valid. Servers don’t come with ETF2L configs preinstalled.

This isn’t a nerf, but a downright death of a class.

Not even talking about HL right now, but 6v6.

Game was meant to be fast-paced. Check.
Game is based around few core classes. Check.
Game is mostly based around Demoman as main damage dealer. Check.
Demoman is a core of the team, alongside the Medic. Check.

Now here’s the rest of the equation:
Take a Demoman and remove 75% of his initial damage. Renders him completetly useless. Since not only 6v6, but TF2 as a whole is an incredibly fast-paced game, 2 seconds of wait for the Sticky to prime is way too long. So long an incapacitated 90 year old on a wheelchair could move out of the blast radius of a sticky before it reaches its full damage.

Sure, you can detonate before 2 seconds of full prime time, but it deals 20-30 damage each stick, which will only sway the 90 year old on a wheelchair slightly to the left.

This basically kills 6v6 as we knew it. The game has a long history, and as far as I remember, it always had the same class composition. You think why the fuck did it stand such a tough test of time? Because it was made and changed towards class balance and equality, with roles on the team.

Now let’s take chess, the game that has been around for goddamn centuries. Well established meta, enjoyable strategies and moves, still competetive for around 800 years. Now let’s take the Queen out of the game, because it’s fucking OP, omg, pls, and replace her with yet another pawn. Sure, you can play. Sure, meta will change. But will it make the game enjoyable? Would it change the meta enough to be still competetive.

People keep saying that 6’s is stagnant… And that’s perfectly fine. People keep playing it, people want to play it in a certain way. Now take away a core of the game, like 40% of it and expect them to carry on like that. It won’t happen. It will slowly deteriorate and get boring, because you remove a class that was able to do turn arounds single-handedly using enemy team’s mistakes and his own wits. You can’t deny that. Any class is able to do it, but picking off enemy Demo has always been major cue to push a point, for both sides.

Now for HL: Chess metaphore once again. How do you expect the King to uber a fucking pawn and expect the pawn to kill enemy jocks and towers? It is not going to happen. Sure, the amount of players stays the same, but not only the King has less protection from the Queen herself, but Queens abilities are severly reduced. Not only that: a Queen was once able to turn around a game, sure, but you can still beat her with a mere pawn. She is not invincible.

The meta will change drastically if they don’t revert the change, and there is going to be massive decline in Demo mains, no doubts about that. 6’s is going to slowly deteriorate to the state where 4v4 is, where more witty people will be running perma Pyros or perma Heavies. After that more decline, less teams signing up, Premiership being silly and not having a pull anymore – boom. Whole comp dead.

For HL there is still some hope, since Valve and Robin himself said that if he had to choose, he’d support HL since it’s the way the game was meant to be played, but the massive switch, so sudden in the game is going to take months AT LEAST to get adapted to. And I know for sure that current, established HL playerbase has no time nor patience to do so. There is hope for the HLO teams to use the change (once again, if it doesn’t get reverted) and adapt to it, making a new way of Highlander, Highlander 2.0, because Demoman was one of the core classes in Highlander, not anymore though. Combo has been reduced severely when it comes to firepower, so you might as well consider running Soldier as a part of it.

Cheers

jake

Quoted from Tseini

I just feel bad for the demos who has been working on their style for so many years relying on the sticky damage.

This is pretty much the same situation for the demomans.
Such slow class as demo just dont have enough time to wait 2seconds before full damage

Quoted from jakeowaty

This isn’t a nerf, but a downright death of a class.

-other stuff-

These two get it, the update was way too harsh on Demoman.

Imo this is a good concept with a poor execution. Too harsh a damage nerf.