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Would ETF2L be better off without wildcards?
Created 25th November 2013 @ 16:05
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What rob is saying, is that we should reward teams that keep their wildcards, probably in the same way WC’s are used in real life with summer camps / scouting.
This thread confuses me I have no idea what the fuck is going on anymore why are we talking about scouts now
Quoted from SmitZ
Surely the problem goes deeper than the wildcards though? Maybe the scheduling system in ETF2L as a whole is flawed? The only reason I’ve used a wildcard so far this season is to avoid a warning because of a late game, which had to be done because we couldn’t play in the default week. Fuck me for wanting to play when it was convenient, right?
You’re actually on to something here, I agree this seems to be a purpose a lot of them are used for. However before the rules were implemented so that you could not play outside your schedule week, people were arranging week 1 games in week 5 and there was no order, games were running massively late and by the catch-up week some teams had 3 or 4 to play whilst other team’s who agreed to delay the game had extra matches to add on. On top of it all, Admins needed to be informed through match comms or IRC and that in itself adds to the issue (not knowing what is going on) resulting in more and more admin requests to solve issues that wouldn’t exist if it was communicated.
So to make deadlines stricter, to keep the league on track and avoid extra workload, these minor warning rules were implemented for late games. I don’t think they should change at all…
HOWEVER – You are on to something because when teams have run out of wildcards, such as my own team for instance we’ve depended on other team’s agreeing to have a warning to accomodate us. In this instance I think that the team who agrees to go beyond the deadline RATHER than claim a default win shouldn’t be punished for fairplay.
Overall you can’t have a league without Wildcards unless you want to enforce stricter scheduling: A default date and only a certain amount of days (2-3) you can extend by (Like UGC, Like ESEA). Otherwise, wildcards are necessary and 2 is a reasonable number in my opinion.
Quoted from kKaltUu
What rob is saying, is that we should reward teams that keep their wildcards, probably in the same way WC’s are used in real life with summer camps / scouting.
Keeping wildcards isn’t something you should reward – They are there to use in Emergencies, if you choose to use it for something other than line-up issues for the day of a scheduled match, then it is your responsibility to deal with the consequences of it. If you end up needing one for real a few weeks later and don’t have one, it’s your problem.
Whether or not you can deal with the lack of respect for your opponent by doing it 16 minutes before a match just because you feel like you need more practise for it, or for another non-emergency reason. Well that is on the person doing it. It does concern me that this actually happens though, I’ve never taken a wildcard without actually having a geniune line-up issue. So we should implement the following change:
Change the amount of time before a scheduled match you can take a wildcard – Make it an hour before the match. If we can push for longer, I’d do it but you’d need to trial the effects of having it an hour before the match. I think the onus should be put on the team leader to ensure they have enough backups + use mercs, otherwise it defeats the point of the rules.
Quoted from quell
[…]
i’m not surprised you would miss the point he’s making so i’ll try to help:
if there are no rules considering wildcards then technically “there are no bullshit wildcards”. what people are discussing here is whether subjectively bullshit wildcards do exist
– 15 people on roster, 1 can’t make it, instead of using subs/mercs you use a wildcard.
– forgot to practice the map cause too busy catching up last week’s wildcarded game, use a wildcard
– our demo hasnt been online all week we dont know what to do > wildcard
etcwhereas the implied proper use of a wildcard is “we cannot field 9 on the agreed/defaulted time and date due to unforseen circumstances, so we have to use a wildcard”.
maybe if you’re so keen on winning a videogame league the following doesn’t bother you, but what happens when you use a wildcard is you inconvenience the opposing team (and possibly your own); people who have bothered to show up in time, found holes in their very busy schedules, and so on.
I understand the point he’s trying to make, you silly bint. All wildcards are the same. There is no point making rules, because it is foreseeable that no admin could prove beyond reasonable doubt that a team is wildcarding due to a “bullshit” reason unless someone on the team using the wildcard whistleblows. The latter argument is only relevant if the team wildcarding doesn’t give much notice which doesn’t happen very often as far as I know (in my experience there’s always a day given).
The current system is fine IMHO.
I has seasons wehre I die Not habe go take a Single wildcard, and there are seasons where I had go take both, with situations where 2 players started to have connection issues 20 minutes before the match. matches where playing with people who you don’t know most llikely would have made us lose, not even talking about finding one. I am happy to have wildcards the way they are now even if they can be used against me.
There is no point making rules, because it is foreseeable that no admin could prove beyond reasonable doubt that a team is wildcarding due to a “bullshit” reason unless someone on the team using the wildcard whistleblows.
that’s true. it’s supposed to function as an extra barrier to wildcarding though, however flimsy it might be.
and people always whistleblow. tf2 players like gossip as much as teenage girls.
Quoted from b33p
[…]
I understand the point he’s trying to make, you silly bint. All wildcards are the same. There is no point making rules, because it is foreseeable that no admin could prove beyond reasonable doubt that a team is wildcarding due to a “bullshit” reason unless someone on the team using the wildcard whistleblows.
If you expand the constraints, there won’t be a need to prove anything. You can add to that the possibility of postponing the match under mutual agreement in case a wildcard isn’t applicable and you’ve eliminated bullshit wildcards.
Earlier, someone mentioned how UGC’s match days are Mondays and everybody involved in UGC knows and accepts that. I like the ETF2L system, but if a similar system were in place designating Sunday as match day for HL ETF2L the whole thing would be far simpler. However, when 6v6 league starts things could get messy if their matches were the same day.
Last edited by b33p,
No its bullshit imo
a team should be made up of 6 or 9 top players if said players cant play in their position then its up to the said team compensate for that loss.
hence why teams should have back up players in their squad
i just think a wild card should be used in desperate situations where most of your team ends up missing for whatever reason at the last minute.
I think there too many teams that take wild cards as the easy option out when they cant be arsed to practice a map or as i said before they carry player happens to be missing.
i think 1 wild card per season per team is more then fair.
Image if teams could do this in pro sports.
Ooooh messi is injured for this game lets wild card it until he is ready to play :P
oh we got a few players out injured lets wild card it while while we get them back to 100%
Imagine a top football club where they get 2 wild cards whenever a top player is out injured or whatever.
i am sorry but teams in most comp sports are given their fixture lists and have to stick to it.
I don’t see why tf2 should be any different
p.s i didn’t notice this top was so old soooo dismiss my crazy rants :P
Last edited by sad-panda,
Quoted from private_meta
I has seasons wehre I die Not habe
Yes.
Quoted from Fluffy Meowington
[…]
Yes.
That happens when you type at the speed of light. Fixed it for you.
Quoted from private_meta
I had seasons where I did Not have to take a Single wildcard, and there are seasons where I had to take both
Quoted from sad-panda
[..]
I don’t see why tf2 should be any different
It all depends on how competitive you want to be. Currently the majority of the ETF2L playerbase plays for fun. TF2 is their hobby, not their top sport.
There are plenty of rules in our current ruleset that could be a lot more strict, but where do you draw the line?
Last edited by Spike Himself,
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