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Erm I think its chaplains fault somehow. Or because I am lazy at noobie mixes.

Can we just solve this unlocks argument by having a whole season under American rules? Copy the maps, weapons, halftime, time limit and score limit. And then we will all know if the American way is better, or at least use it to improve our own league.

Quoted from Selek

[…]

Of course we do. Much of our play is about how to manipulate people into doing something against us so they don’t watch the rest of our team. And still, watch any good Spy how he breaks stalemates and opens opportunities for his team even though the enemy team knows there will be an enemy Spy the whole game.

Majority of the time you’ll be more useful as almost any other class than Spy no matter how much you try distracting them.

Quoted from Sideshow

[…]

Most things are.

I wish you had died as a child

Quoted from Vali

If you’re bored of tf2’s current playstyle, what I say to you is just try new things. Play more aggressively. Push without obvious advantages. Sit down and work out new tactics for you to try. You don’t need unlocks in order to make such a playstyle viable. Many, many teams could afford to play a lot more aggressively without even sacrificing their playstyle: they just don’t take advantage of the advantages that they have in a given situation. While it can be hard for players below the top level to truly innovate, give it a try. You might just surprise yourself.

Fair enough, but TF2 is not a stale game, it’s one of the most diverse games I have ever played, and damn, do I love this game. Why are we creating artificial barriers making this game more stale and boring? Stale map pool, stale ruleset, stale mindset, everything, completely against what the Americans are doing, and look how it’s working for us. That’s what we have to change, and if you were to ask me I would say the first 2 would be the easiest ones to change, the mindset change will eventually come with the extra “tools” we will have. We have discussed it, unlocks do not change the metagame, they only allow for a different flow or more interesting options (imo), would it really hurt anyone or anything by trying or adding them? Unless you add a completely broken weapon like the pomsom that completely breaks game mechanics I would say, no. One of the most used arguments for people against unlocks is “We’re good atm, why change”, but I would say, we could be way better. I’m sure there’s an english word for it but I don’t remember atm but the notion that we are good, so we won’t even bother try to be better is really disturbing, and even more the “the game is going to die anyway, so why bother?” notion.

Quoted from kaidus

It’s fairly fuckin simple. Games will only ever work competitively on a huge scale if an effective competitive gametype is incorporated into the game and seen as the proper way to play. TF2 wasn’t designed for competitive play so no such thing exists in the game itself, but we made it work anyway and just have to settle for what we have. Players will come and go, I’d say we’ve done pretty good – all things considered.

Yes we’ve done pretty good, but I think we could be doing better.

Quoted from Chaplain

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Not only did hardly any give unlocks as an excuse, but they will want unlocks which we simply can’t allow. Ask any of them whether the gunboats or equaliser is holding them back from 6s and the answer is bound to be a resounding no IMO.

Hardly? Most of the people mention competitive artificially creates barriers for them related to weapons. And it’s true.

Quoted from Chaplain

[…]
The real thing stopping people from getting into competitive 6v6 is they want to play a class that we don’t (for some reason pubbers seem to think we ban classes, not that the classes are I’ll suited to our meta) time restrictions and a view that 6v6 is not ‘real’ tf2

That’s true as well but it’s not the “real thing” it’s one of the many causes mentioned.

Quoted from Chaplain

[…]
TF2 is never going to be a big esport or have large competitive communities. End of. The very fact we have to think about making our community more attractive to newcomers hits the nail on the head. The transition between pub and comp is too great, and while we shouldn’t try and turn people away, we should be happy with what we’ve got.

Why not? I would say the games with the most potential to be an esport are diverse games that have a big casual fanbase. TF2 is exactly that and much more. If we only got some support from valve. But even then we should be working towards it and not against. One of the biggest step is to don’t turn people away like you said. And no we shouldn’t be happy with what we’ve got, we have potential for much more. I would say we could be doing way better until we reach even half of the NA stream numbers, that is without notch tweeting about it of course.

Meanwhile the thread I created here http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2795616 already hit 300 replies and 20 forum pages in less than one day, I would say it’s a precious resource for us to analyze and see what we are doing wrong in attracting pub and casual players, not only unlock wise.

Quoted from rytis

few spufers telling that unlock bans are the cause they dont play 6v6 doesnt mean it suits the others. I’ve seen replies like “I’ve got trashed;My team got trashed” and others along those lines. Then I’ve seen that people play only pyro LOL. Then there are those who said – they dont know where to start. so yeah go figure yourself, and open your eyes please that the unlocks isnt the reason why those people dont want to play 6v6

I am not saying that either, I’m saying is one of the reasons not the main one.

I am for unlocks mainly because from my experience I think they offer a much more interesting and diverse play style from the spectactor POV as well as from the player POV, that is just an added reason to why I support unlocks

Quoted from Selek

[…]Sorry, couldn’t leave that uncommented.

That was a very selective post. You didn’t read it at all just reacted to “spies are dumb.”

Quoted from Kaneco

[…]

[citation needed]

Item A counters Item B.
Item B counters Item C.
Item C counters Item A.

Rock paper scisors. Luckier one wins.