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Lawl...
Created 16th January 2009 @ 20:20
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Firstly, I’m flattered by g0d for suggesting we deserve Divison 2 :) Whilst I think we could give it a good go, we’re happy where we are in Div3 and plan to work hard and get better as a team through this division, and hopefully if we play well, go up next Season.
Secondly, I think g0d makes a good point that in some circumstances, it seems that ‘known players’ with histories of being in good teams may be able to get their own team bumped up a little – in this situation, we’re mainly talking about Delirium and Nervous. However, I think both of these teams are genuinly good, and as long as they stay stable, deserve a shot at Division 1. As the premier division for the whole league, it’s important that we try and keep it as good as possible, so not promoting isn’t an issue.
However, I think part of the reason that this league is so successful is because there ARN’T set rules that dictate exactly how things happen. All the admins are players in the league, and know virtually all the upper division teams, and instead of following stupid rules can show some common sense, and promote teams where they obviously need to. Whilst it might seem unfair that c0ck, now D with a few changes, could potentially be moved up 2 divisions from their original seeding, there’s no doubt in my mind that after playing them, they seem perhaps the most suited for Div1, and deserve a chance.
TL;DR:
-g0d makes a valid point that in some cases, knowing the right people can help your team
– On the other hand, the fact that admins show some common sense and move teams according to roster changes shows some common sense and benefits teams who would just get thrashed
– It’s a fine line to balance, but I don’t see too much wrong with how it’s going at the moment, as long as the admins keep listening to the community :)
If the finns could stop reforming in new teams with the same players all the time it would be so much easier!
Imo divs should be based a bit on skill and classification, ofc who gets top spots in the previous seasons should be promoted, they were the best teams, etc etc, but there’s a problem with the new teams, wouldnt make sense to add new teams in bottom divs, lets see ubersexuals… last season they were suposed to start in div1, an open spot @ div1 gave them the promotion, they won the tittle..
So… the team who was suposed to be in div2, won the div1.., what sense could it make if they were in div2? raping everyone in div2 with the skill of div1?
when the team skill is about the same even if its only a bit better than a team who got 2nd spot and wasnt promoted, for me the team who got 2nd should get the promotion.. but in certain cases if the new team is much better than any other available for promotion, the new team should get the spot
@dunc just because u are in a top team, doesnt give u the right to say whatever u want to the players u dont know, gives u an image of arrogant prick, everyone has their own opinions even if its a div6 guy or a div1, learn to accept what ppl says even if its against ur thoughts
Great response Haunter.. have you even read this thread? I haven’t immediately dismissed or patronised anyone or their opinion in any reply – other than the fuckwit spammer.
If you think “+1” and “+2” bullshit is an appropriate reply to a discussion, you need your head checked.
im not keep arguing with u, just gave my 2cents about the inicial topic and a tip
Haunter points out the flaws in any gaming “promotion/relegation” league system. In this particular case (the team to replace KC), we could just check last season and see which teams came behind the 1st/2nd slots and promote them.
However since then, theres teams out there that are better and would better suit division 1. For example, we could promote a team that will loose heavilly every single week in division 1, get relegated and be pretty demoralised (and may even fold?). Or we could promote a team thats stronger and perhaps have the opposite effect.
It’s a pure catch 22 situation.
From my nooby perpective the system seems pretty fair. Every one scrims so much it becomes obvious who are the strong teams just by pcw’s. The play off gives people a chance to prove themselves in pressure situations.
If they put all the recently formed teams made up of div 1/2/3 players into div 6 it would obviously piss off the teams in question but also real div 6 teams like mine lol :)
I completely agree with what Agron said here :
“The purpose of the divisions is to provide everyone equally skilled opponents, not serve as status symbols of some kind, even though div 1-2 seem to have transformed into such.”
But I, of course, agree on that the promotion to higher divisions should be as fair as possible. The most straighforward solution would be to take all teams that want to play in a higher division and let them fight about it ingame.
Team Fortress 2 teams is not like a football league, teams changes much quicker here, therefor only having “rules” where certain clans should start would not work. Getting a system that work flawless with only rules will never work.
on the other hand, i agree that nervous and d might be the most suited teams for a fight for div 1, but didnt jAgarna for example make the game a tie against druidz (and that wasnt just a pcw), doesnt that let them be a part of the fight for div 1 fight, if etf2l logic work like it does?
a little on/off topic, is there a list of all the active admins somwhere?
Cage match between the respective leaders in international waters
sureley “division 1” is supposed to be the best 10 current teams in the community at the start of the season? If teams think they’re good enough to take that spot, let them be entered into this cup or what have you, people are arguing for the sake of it right now;
this isn’t football, being in one division doesn’t get you better TV coverage, more money, better salary, a better stadium, if you’re playing this game for fun ( which i hope most people are ) surely you’d prefer to see a team make it’s respective division alot closer and have some good “Fun” matches than have them shown what for in a higher division that they might have been worthy of at the time, but now clearly arn’t & visa versa with good teams in a worse quality division
rules are there for a reason, but there’s common sense too
i think its quite simple really, dmg is the team who should be first on the list as they are proven stable and were really close to advancing to div1 in S3.
(as mentioned many times before)
if dmg do not think they are able to then get the playoff between nvs and d’ , the _obviously_ strongest teams in div2, going. both are capable of holding their own in div1.
every other div2 team demanding to take part in such playoff needs to do a serious reality check, even if they know they are chanceless and they go for it out of principle.
g0d:
as for specific rules to be made in terms of replacing a team in case of a fold, i think there is no need to implement a “system” or rules, u cant possibly integrate a _universal_ ruleset, which is based on stability- and skillvalues.
imo the admins just shouldnt make hasty decisions and wait for community feedback as is the case in the current dilemma.
whilst slightly off topic,
i also feel some teams “cheat” (used in a lose sense here) thier way into divisions.
A change of leader mid season, fold out of season, form before start of a new season and recruit some of the original cast with some new additions. Its an ongoing problem i’ve seen happening.
I wouldnt be suprised to see the likes of KC/hb0da reincarnating next season expecting to hold thier divisional place. Usually its true that thier league position in previous seasons reflects thier current lineup skill , but it seems that with this type of league system it means that it often goes stale for the top half of the league.
Wouldnt it be better to “kill” – *delete from website* – the team completelty untill re-evaluation the next season?
Just my 50pence
I think a lot of people here are missing the point.
First of all, let me say I 100% agree that div 1 should hold the top 10 teams. But I thought that proving yourself over a whole season, placing first; should be enough to get you up a div.
I belive you are more div 1 worthy by winning div 2, than playing a freakin cup. Because you think you might have a chance
Meaning winning a cup : You get promoted
Winning a div: Your not
That being said: If dmg thinks they belong in div 2, then somebody else should get the spot.
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