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ETF2L: The problem
Created 6th March 2011 @ 14:50
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Quoted from Martn
[…]
no, but still, lol @ prize support from a major league as ESL =D
ESL’s support probably will increase if the number of teams in the league grows. We’ll see.
We’ll also see how/if the split will affect ETF2L’s sponsorship in the future.
Last edited by agron,
Quoted from AcidReniX
[…]
I completely agree. First post in this thread that made sense.
“I am proposing a separation of the top 2/3 divisions which has the same map pool as the rest of the league but runs vanilla + medlocks as the unlock rule.”
The OP’s post wasn’t horrible. They made some points, but I guess he doesn’t see what is wrong with his solution. The gentlemen’s rule was a good idea that some teams created to play the style of TF2 that they wanted, against other teams who wanted the same style. It made perfect sense. But those teams are then complaining that every team should also play with their gentlemens rule… and that is retarded because not everyone wants to play that game.
The reason why having division X + go to vanilla rules is dumb, is because teams get promoted and relegated in this league. You said yourself why the gentlemen’s rule is suddenly an issue… because teams got promoted do not want to play the full vanilla ruleset. Why should a team that gets promoted from division 2, have to suddenly play a different game to what they want to play? What if the ‘pro cinnamon’ teams took the same stance as the vanilla teams that are leaving, and decided either to leave the league (when they get promoted to a vanilla division), or requested to stay in the same division they were just promoted from. It makes sense for them to make this request if they simply do not enjoy the rules in the divisions above them (just like how it makes sense for the prem teams to leave the league if they do not like the rules which is what they are doing now).
This would completely screw up the league. What if you had 3 premier division standard teams, sitting at numbers 1, 2 and 3 in division two every single season? (Yes I know there are 2a, 2b, but just using an example). It would completely screw the season up for the division 1 standard teams looking to be promoted. It would also screw up the relegation system, or in the first scenario… you would lose some high standard teams who would leave the league because they don’t like the ruleset.
Isn’t that the issue people are having now? Teams leaving because they don’t like the rules.
At least by having a cinnamon ruleset, there is still the option of the gentlemen’s agreement for team pairings that only want to play vanilla. Since (apparently) most of the prem teams want vanilla, this would mean they play say… 8 out of 10 games without unlocks anyway… and then 2 games where they can use some very insignificant unlocks (omgsh flaregun and equaliser means a completely different game!!!11oenone).
how many teams would actually quit if vanmedlocks for prem div 1 was introduced
Prem players QQ’ing cuz it’s not how they want it to be.
So they’re not joining ETF2L. Big shit. Not like it’s affecting my div or anything. People need to get down off the srs ladder. We’re playing a game, and the unlock rules aren’t bad at all. It’s just prem players complaining because they wanted vanilla + medlocks.
Quoted from Ghostface
We’re playing a game, and the unlock rules aren’t bad at all. It’s just prem players complaining because they wanted vanilla + medlocks.
Yes. Literally NO ONE other than a couple of prem teams wants vanilla. Definitely.
still so far nova an Krakyn made the best posts (even though they have different opinions)
I think both show us pretty well their point of view and are right in most cases. The thing is personally I don’t really care if players / teams move completely to ESL since I won’t gain anything either if they would stay, I’m doing this to help people to enjoy their hopefully favorite game in a league. Unfortunately this “discussion” is something different. I might agree to the fact, teams playing in prem/div1 etc have most likely a good idea where the game should be heading. However the argument of different unlocks adding a further strategic death to the game is true as well and as far as I can tell, people in the lower divisions like unlocks.
What ever, I wouldn’t mind going vanilla + med (and maybe the one or other unlock(s)) since my team almost plays with regular weapons. Can’t speak for other teams.
Hard decision tbh.
About the maps I think 5 or 6 maps from the season before (same / reskins / updates) and one (at max 2) newcomer map should be fine, so we get a little rotation into the map pool.
Quoted from Skyride
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Yes. Literally NO ONE other than a couple of prem teams wants vanilla. Definitely.
While medlocks stay allowed, i couldnt care less about having unlocks allowed, but, from my point of view, it would add to the gameplay to allow some unlocks.
Also, the unlocks allowed on the support classes are just too trivial to be taken serious.
I believe skyride was being sarcastic. And he makes a good point. There ARE teams in the lower divs that support vanilla.
I’m totaly understand the Prem div players.
All these unlock change the gameplay everytime.
and Valve will not stop add some new weapons in the game.
People wont change their tactics every season.
Vanilla + Medic Unlocks + Equalizer should be enough for every div.
koeitje got an amazing poll, But some maps in the top 10, doesn’t get in this season and that’s sad. tbh
The most fair thing you can do is look at how most people play their pcw’s. If people really prefer unlocks over vanilla then everybody is using unlocks in their pcw’s all the time. The fact that in 99,99% of the time people dont use unlocks at all in their pcw’s regardless of skill level, the tf2 community really prefers vanilla over unlocks. We dont even have to have polls, people already choose how they play their regular pcw’s.
If ETF2L wants to cater to the majority by using unlocks (because we are always told that there is a large part of this community who doesn’t get involved in the discussion regarding unlocks) then why don’t we have a site wide poll.
All the independantly run polls are pretty much ignored because they don’t represent the entire community, which is fair considering there is a large part of the community that isn’t aware of these.
ETF2L can reach the entire community through the front page news post and email notifications.
Seems to me that if you want to cater to the majority of players, you need to actually find out their stance on the subject.
(If such a poll has taken place recently then disregard whatever I just said).
+1 ETF2L Poll
Quoted from herpderp
If ETF2L wants to cater to the majority by using unlocks (because we are always told that there is a large part of this community who doesn’t get involved in the discussion regarding unlocks) then why don’t we have a site wide poll.
All the independantly run polls are pretty much ignored because they don’t represent the entire community, which is fair considering there is a large part of the community that isn’t aware of these.
ETF2L can reach the entire community through the front page news post and email notifications.
Seems to me that if you want to cater to the majority of players, you need to actually find out their stance on the subject.
(If such a poll has taken place recently then disregard whatever I just said).
OHHHH!!!! EWEDOWIUN!!!
And pretty much what Eledorian said. you can’t force the admins into making a decision about something which has only been discussed by a fraction of the entire league.
If you were to make a decision, a poll should be done for the entire community, since only a part of the teams/ players in ETF2L actually take their time to read every “FREE BEAVERN”, “Y U NO ADD FREIGHT TO S9?’, “LOOK AT MAH FRAG CLIP” thread on these boards. I doubt that every player actually logs in to the site every so often to check what’s up.
Without the top teams playing this league becomes a joke. Admins need to listen to the players and stop doing their own thing.
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