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Quoted from kuma

[…]

Yeah, of course, I only passed off the OP as fact, everything else said in the discussion should be taken as opinion.

Again, I’m not necessarily talking about 2 heavies, but the Natascha.

It counters:
– Soft pushes without an uber
– RJs
– Scouts

Countered by:
– Sniper/Spy
– Flanks
– Focused spam

Doesn’t this same list apply to the heavy in general?
I don’t really agree with the natasha countering a “soft push”, it depends how you excute it.

Quoted from kuma

So the Natascha promotes an even more uber-centric, pick orientated metagame as opposed to the current style.

You base this on what exactly? I still have to meet high tier teams who use a heavy in their regular lineup nowadays.

Quoted from kuma

On points without an adequate flank route and no good sniper spots, it is very effective at suppressing aggression (RJs) and limiting heal distribution as the medigun is forced onto the Heavy’s target.

Again same applies for the heavy using the sasha. And ofc the guy standing in front of the heavy needs healing, duh, dont stand in his way if you can’t take him.

Quoted from kuma

The buff also includes movement speed while spinning, but it’s more the fact that people use a Heavy much more now in scrims than before.

So basically you just want to ban the heavy?

EDIT: just wanted to say that a heavy is designed to be one of the strongest classes, a class that can “only” be taken down by teamplay and/or spam from multiple classes.
People suggesting tdh or w/e unlock to “counter” the heavy, just want to kill the heavy on their own, while you need teamplay!

Quoted from Monkeh

[…]

They were all meant as seperate situations. If the nme run 2 nataschas and no scouts then you’ll back cap easily. Not back cap last natch.

I have nothing to add to the conversation except this question. Did you just spell enemy n-m-e?

Quoted from Tikcus

[…]
I disagree with the not enjoyable, I bet the heavy that pins your black scotish arse in the air is enjoying himself :)

I have a nice arse.

I think he was only making a joke at me, Kuma. :)

I’m all for a Natascha Limit 1. Double Natascha is such a lame tactic even Gibbz can use it.

Quoted from Exfane

[…]

Doesn’t this same list apply to the heavy in general?
I don’t really agree with the natasha countering a “soft push”, it depends how you excute it.

[…]

You base this on what exactly? I still have to meet high tier teams who use a heavy in their regular lineup nowadays.

[…]

Again same applies for the heavy using the sasha. And ofc the guy standing in front of the heavy needs healing, duh, dont stand in his way if you can’t take him.

[…]

So basically you just want to ban the heavy?

EDIT: just wanted to say that a heavy is designed to be one of the strongest classes, a class that can “only” be taken down by teamplay and/or spam from multiple classes.
People suggesting tdh or w/e unlock to “counter” the heavy, just want to kill the heavy on their own, while you need teamplay!

I don’t think Sasha poses any problems at all, I think it’s balanced. The point is, if a Sasha heavy is far away, you can’t spam him effectively but he isn’t hurting you either. But with a Natascha, he can still apply the slow effect from far away. So on some points (e.g. Gran last) the only choice is to uber into him or pick him before pushing.

Why do you think that the heavy should be the only class that requires “teamwork” to kill? Because Valve designed it that way? The DH being more effective against the Heavy is an intended design on Valve’s part as well, but we’ve removed it, now you’ve skewed balance artificially (arguable by how much).

lets just scrap all tf2 weapons, bring in quake weapons…. sorted.

Lightening gun… awayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

no i dont think banning is the answer, more valve need to fix the slow down effect. it can destroy a team like the direct hit can, but thats been banned…