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Soldier's Rocketjump post Classless patch.
Created 15th August 2009 @ 11:54
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With the current format of x2 soldiers the soldier doesn’t need a major buff except its general speed. However, once the format changes to include a heavy, the remaining soldier will need to be able to survive largely on his own without the medical attention – and this is something which the class isn’t really designed to do.
It’s not a solo class like scout – it’s a class with stupidly slow recoup time (limiting how many enemies you can kill in a short time), no real ability to retreat, massive self-dmg, slow projectiles and slow run speed / agility, which combined with a large hitbox means playing soldier will be used mostly as a means to charge uber (for other classes to use)
/Rant over
Cheers
Fragga
With the current format of x2 soldiers the soldier doesn’t need a major buff except its general speed. However, once the format changes to include a heavy, the remaining soldier will need to be able to survive largely on his own without the medical attention – and this is something which the class isn’t really designed to do.
It’s not a solo class like scout – it’s a class with stupidly slow recoup time (limiting how many enemies you can kill in a short time), no real ability to retreat, massive self-dmg, slow projectiles and slow run speed / agility, which combined with a large hitbox means playing soldier will be used mostly as a means to charge uber (for other classes to use)
/Rant over
Cheers
Fragga
To be honest that COULD be achieved by making the soldiers rocket jump require less health, but i doubt it would make that big of a difference. I just hope Valve get the next class update out soon (and i hope to god its either soldier or engineer because if its demo …)
I’m sure he didnt actually mean “solo”… nothing is 100% “solo” in this game but a scout has many more chances to sneak away even if hes spotted.
tbh, I will never get over the fact that the soldier basically kills himself shooting rockets at closer targets…
well if he meant that he could as well just say, scout can get away easier cuz he runs fast.
and you could argue, i can see a soldier getting away fast with his rocketjumps too, and i can see a demoman blocking the way so he can get away easily or stickyjumping away too, same goes for medic spamming needles around corners a spy cloaking a pyro airblasting… the list goes on, just because a scout can run faster doesn’t mean he’s a solo class. he might be ahead of the team often: scouting the enemy. but that doesn’t make him a solo class.
well if he meant that he could as well just say, scout can get away easier cuz he runs fast.
and you could argue, i can see a soldier getting away fast with his rocketjumps too, and i can see a demoman blocking the way so he can get away easily or stickyjumping away too, same goes for medic spamming needles around corners a spy cloaking a pyro airblasting… the list goes on, just because a scout can run faster doesn’t mean he’s a solo class. he might be ahead of the team often: scouting the enemy. but that doesn’t make him a solo class.
I think his point was scout can surive the longest alone due to dodging and fast escapes where as its harder for other classes, also the scout can dodge long range / mid range projectiles pretty easily so aslong as you arent going in for a kill you wont eat hardly any damage? With soldier and mid range rockets its hard to dodge without getting any spash damage, with a enemy soldier with good aim and prediction its even more difficult but a scout as alot more time to move etc so i think hes right, the scout is the best “solo” class out of soldier medic demoman and scout.
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Also, does anyone think re-adding the 40% decreased damage from a soldiers own rocket would make it more difficult for other classes? I get it that it would make it harder for scouts but tbh if your willing to take a rocket just to get a bit of hp off the enemy im not sure if thats worth it… Well, if your wanting to get away at least :D but i dont play scout much so meh.
Lets turn this topic into “How to even out the soldier” or if you believe hes pretty even at the moment what new unlocks would you like to see for the soldier? Or should i just make a “Soldier update ideas” thread?
One of the problems with soldier is that even if your team has a shit demo you’d still likely push uber/kritz with him, because even if he’s so shit he misses half his shots he’ll still do more damage than a soldier with perfect 100% aim. The demo is just better at offense and defense than soldier.
Last night I played demo, ubered final on fastlane, I missed 4 stickes, missed 2 nades and still killed all 6 enemies (2 with 1 nade because of the damage transfer _only_ the demoman has). That’s 50% accuracy. Had I’d gone in as soldier and done 50% accuracy I doubt I’d of killed even one enemy.
And this is in essense the problem with TF2, it tries to be a rock-paper-scissors game, but some classes combine all three into one. If the demo was a defensive class, then that would naturally make the soldier offensive, but I think Valve have already made it clear they see the demoman as both an offensive/defensive class.
Edit:
I’ve mained as scout for over a year now, and to me at least the scout is the perfect solo class, in fact it’s quite refreshing to play with the freedom to go it alone, not having to protect the medic. But then I’ve always played scout in the “solo” role I know arnold and skinnie work together brilliantly, but the class is more than capable of being played completely solo.
Yet a solly can kill any class bar 1 with 2 decent rockets. It also has a hitscan weapon as backup which at close range also does pretty sick weapon. Infact you can out aim a scout and kill it faster with sg then it can scatter gun you. I’m not saying solly isn’t a balanced class… I just feel there is so much whine and not enough of actual “trying to master it”. I hard see any sollys try to bump players up using rockets (Actually the only one I see consiously trying is Altvour from cc) distracting their aim massively. I do however think that raising splash damage range slightly (and making it do slightly more damage) and decreasing the self-damage slightly, while not having a massive impact on the game would increase soldier survivability and fun. Then again you could just l2p.
And as regards RJing away, well I come to realise that even if I do this I’ll still get chased down and killed (once you take into account the RJ damage, possible fall damage (80h) its often better to just suicide on the medic or anyone as it takes sometimes just as long to get back to the medic as it does to respawn.
[Yet a solly can kill any class bar 1 with 2 decent rockets.]
The average rocket does about 70 damage, unless you’re point blank. Most encounters with demomen or soldiers require me to hit 3 accurate rockets, heavy usually requires all 4 rockets plus one quick SG hit.
l2p ? er ok
my god, there should be a forum option called “Ignore Fraggas Post – Check”
<3 Fragga The best engineer in the world
Haha… watch Anthenelol for the l2p joke :>
Still, a solly at close range (with good aim), has the ability to down any class unless there are other circumstances (like medpacks or the player has a buff/boost). And this is the sollys strength, close range. Soldiers also have alot more survivability when flanked by scouts compared to the demo you hate so much. Infact soldiers have alot more survivability when playing offensively then an offensive demo vs any class (Unless the range is substantial). As even the best players pipes are hit and miss and stickies are slow. Soldiers also benefit most when hitting targets in the air as a rocket is easier to predict then a pipe (due to curviture), giving them an advantage on jump to get to areas. So while you say the soldier is a weak class, he’s also the BEST class in many aspects.
I’m fairly confident most players would rather have a solly defending a medic then a demo because if a scout did get near the solly would be more consistent in killing that scout. Sure the solly isn’t an offensive solo class. So? It still outshines in many other areas and situations.
… heavy usually requires all 4 rockets plus one quick SG hit.
You’ll need a lvl 3 SG for that and that takes some time to build so i understand your problem.
I love it when a scout jumps at you close range, you shoot him but then he dosnt die and you take all the damage and he just pops you once with his scatter gun and you’re dead.
Good times.
What would you choose if you could for soldier:
-Faster movement speed
-Less falloff damage
-Faster rockets
-Larger splash damage area
-or centered rockets
Id personally choose faster movement speed, just because it would make dodging easier.
EDIT:
Also if you had the choice inbetween this rocketlauncher or a rocketlauncher that did:
-less damage
+lighter (faster movement speed)
or the current rocket launcher what would you chose?
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