Forum

Quoted from T0m

Threads shouldn’t just be closed just from someone making an inconsiderate remark, I understand that it is important to keep them clean from offensive language etc, but some of the little jokes made in certain threads shouldn’t result in people getting banned.

Threads are not getting locked because of one person making remarks that are offtopic. They are not getting closed either because of two people trying to derail a thread. They are closed when most people are discussing stuff that is not ontopic anymore, when the thread “served its purpose”, when themes that violate the forum rules are discussed, to clean out the offtopic comments or if people are insulting each other (there might be some more reasons). Also, little jokes do not get anybody banned. If you are referring to the RIP Steve Jobs thread: We are talking about jokes about a recently deceased person here. Is asking for some piety too much?
Quoted from T0m

Obviously certain people who make offensive comments on a regular basis should be treated a little more harshly than people who make one-off comments. Bans through emails/some form of messaging system would be more effective than the method that is used now as it would result in threads not being locked and would (as a suggestion) just remove the banned users comment.
As nothing would be said from an admin on the banning within the thread all the god complex comments etc would eventually fade out as there would be no evidence to suggest certain admins ban people when they feel like it.

If we did not comment anything at all and just silently removed the inappropriate posts, I am sure the “god complex” comments would move way for “Gestapo admin” comments. (I know this for a fact because people whose comments are filtered by the spam filter usually claim that an admin is removing all his posts)
I am glad that we agree that the forums need some moderation and we should deal more harshly with users that attract negative attention more often than others. However, I can not see a PM system being established anytime soon (What for? Only to message people about their bans?) and emailing every banned user is a bit of a hassle because it would need a head admin every time to look up the email address.

What do you think about the idea that the admin handing out the forum ban simply removes the comment in question and replaces it with a short explanation like “X is now forum banned, please contact an admin on IRC to get more information”?
Actually, I was under the impression that people wanted to learn as much as possible about handed out forum bans and demanded more transparency…

Quoted from Sylosin

No I don’t know or ‘realise’ which admins do what roles, and which ones argue for what. How on earth would I know, given that I have no way of seeing your discussions?

Well, I thought at least you would know. It has been stated a couple of times that I’m not the only admin reading the forums, or the only one deciding what the punishment will be, or the strictest admin. I thought you had actually read the posts you’re complaining about.

Other people react to this negatively, and you give a speech about herp they were naughty, derp they were banned before

Hmm, let’s see here…

1) Ashkan bans someone and shortly states what he was banned for and how long.
2) A bunch of people who don’t know the rules, previous ban history and have no trust for admins start complaining in private, in IRC and in the thread.
3) The ones to complain outside the thread are given an elaborate explanation and now accept the ban.
4) They tell the admins that they should say that in the thread too, so people know exactly why he was banned like that and stop complaining.
5) The admins ask Ashkan to post in the thread as soon as possible.
6) As requested by community members, Ashkan wastes an hour of studying to give an elaborate explanation in the thread and in private.

And what does that sum up to?
“you give a speech about herp they were naughty, derp they were banned before”

herp if you want to complain go complain in IRC etc etc etc.

Another way of putting it would be:
“Please do not derail this thread further. My best suggestion is to contact an admin on IRC in order to discuss any complaints or questions.”

And the way I usually put it:
“If you have any questions or complaints, please contact an admin: http://etf2l.org/etf2l/support/ ”

If you want people to stop picking on you, then maybe you should be in the background like the other admins are, and one of them should be the PR.

Why should we let someone else take the hit? As I said in my last post, I don’t take anything personally. The problem is when someone says that he wants to improve the forum and our moderation, but does so under the false assumptions that I am the only moderator, that I always decide what punishment will be handed out, and that I’m stricter than everyone else. When you’re having a discussion, you need to base it on facts, not illogical assumptions.

I don’t think any admin would have problems moderating the forums. For every loud-mouth derailing threads and throwing around insults, there’s a person adding admins to Steam or messaging them on IRC, showing support and where the silent majority stands.

Quoted from CanFo

Actually, I was under the impression that people wanted to learn as much as possible about handed out forum bans and demanded more transparency…

That is correct, we’ve had a bunch of complaints about not being elaborate enough.

Quoted from TurboTabs

“Endure, Master Ashkan. Take it. They’ll hate you for it, but that’s the point of Batma– An Admin. An Admin can be the outcast. He can make the choice that no one else can make — the right choice.”

Dark Knight quotes aside I think the Admins are exactly what I want them to be; Logical.

I’ve never seen such a disciplined admin team to be honest when it comes to their forums. Just stopping the drama llama for a sec to publicly say ‘Thanks Admins, I think you’re doing an overall great job’ (:

This is a ass kissing for the Admins; this is an ass kissing for Logic :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3vgqVOhz2s

Quoted from Atty

keep up the good job ashkan
thnx for banning Fantomen btw

Quoted from Skyride

I’m quite an out spoken person in general, online and irl, and even I feel uncomfortable posting on these forums quite often these days. I’m sure a huge load of people feel exactly the same.

Hmm, shame to hear. What exactly is it that makes it uncomfortable to post here? Is it that admins are inconsistent and you’re afraid to get banned for not doing anything wrong? Or are the admins too strict in general, and maybe the rules should be changed a bit? Something like that?

We can pretend be fair and treat everyone as equal, but honestly some people just know know what they’re talking about more than others (a prem scout talking about how to scout obviously has a better idea than a div5 player), and I feel that’s a fact entirely neglected on this forum over the last year or so.

I agree that some people have a better idea than others when it comes to certain subjects (obviously). I’m not sure how the admins would be able to affect that though, other than supply facts and debate maturely like everyone else. What suggestions do you have?

Quoted from ashkan

[…]

Hmm, shame to hear. What exactly is it that makes it uncomfortable to post here? Is it that admins are inconsistent and you’re afraid to get banned for not doing anything wrong? Or are the admins too strict in general, and maybe the rules should be changed a bit? Something like that?

[…]

I agree that some people have a better idea than others when it comes to certain subjects (obviously). I’m not sure how the admins would be able to affect that though, other than supply facts and debate maturely like everyone else. What suggestions do you have?

For the first: its not logical but it feels like if you post an opinion which does not sit well with the majority or the admins you will get banned if you try to defend it later on, or if you post a comment that is not fluffy and nice but is in its core correct you will also get banned. there is a big difference between banning people who post shit and banning people who post their thoughts but dont put it across nicely
For the second its not solvable, everyone should be able to put their point across =d

Quoted from Dummy

only thing which makes me ‘derp’ is locking a thread after all the spastics who posted crap on it are banned. no point and it doesn’t allow some to RIP Jobs, not that anyone cares that much about that but
my main point is it feels like restricting the freedoms of the ones who are behaving for no reason

I agree. There is a reason for locking the thread though: you have to delete all the off-topic posts otherwise, and people often feel it’s not right to do so, which is understandable.

Therefore, I personally think the best option would be to simply create a new thread and start off fresh, with no history deleted and no quick-linking bugs (fix that already, spike!). What do you guys think?