Forum
About scheduling default dates
Created 10th November 2010 @ 11:17
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just to show how random default dates are, read this thread:
http://etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-9559/?recent=164079
i quote d2m:
We are not going to set a default date on the same day (Tuesday) or on a Wednesday (in just over 24hrs time from the date), unless there are no other options.
Quoted from Tob
I know there is an admin statement at the match page but i think this is just not fair. In my opinion a default date schould be set at least 24 hours before it’s scheduled.
You did no visible effort to schedule on the match page for 8 full days, you did not react on the opponents proposal on the match page, you did not check the match page on Thursday even though it was the second to last match-date to play the week 1 match, all in the FIRST week of a season. In the meantime the admin team had to seed 350 teams in different divisions rating each of them. Additionally for the highlander challenge process the 1200 matches with over then 50 match disputes and 126 dropped teams. So even though the date could have been set more conveniently I’m sure you can see why our main goal was not compensating for a lack of action in the best way possible.
Quoted from dave
[…]there is no such thing. also this would only fix upcoming issues related to this.
It’s set by bot I think?
Quoted from dave
to fix the op’s problem, the default loss has to be removed and a reasonable default date should be assigned. everything else: imba and very unprofessional.
What about peeps, who simply don’t want to play against particular team and are postponing the match into eternity? I don’t think that’d be a rarely occuring problem. After all, it has been implemented just to prevent such events. I guess we might just heavily punish people in such cases, but again, that’d need to be investigated and such.
Quoted from freshmeatt
who simply don’t want to play against particular team and are postponing the match into eternity
If that’s the mindset you’re entering a league with, I think you’re doing it wrong.
Quoted from RaCio
[…]
You did no visible effort to schedule on the match page for 8 full days, you did not react on the opponents proposal on the match page, you did not check the match page on Thursday even though it was the second to last match-date to play the week 1 match, all in the FIRST week of a season.
Yes and we’re very sorry for that, but what you (or the admin, who set this date up) did is giving our opponent a nearly instant default win.
If there were any rules, that say:
“If you don’t write a date down at the match page, you’ll get a default loss”
there wont be any problems for us to accept this decision, but there are no such rules and for me this is just not fair.
and by the the way: it was the week 2 match ;)
btw2. its exemplary how much time and energy you spend in the administration of the etf2l and i really thank you guys for that.
Quoted from Spike Himself
[…]
If that’s the mindset you’re entering a league with, I think you’re doing it wrong.
That’s exactly my point, yet why would they care about what you say? People are usually fags caring about points more than playing the game, so what could you expect?
I agree with baerbel, I understand that it´s gotta be hard to manage all the lazy teams not scheduling their dates – which team taking schedules and matchdates serious hasn´t been a victim of that… And I get your point that you have to follow certain rules of common sense when you´re setting default dates, like setting it to the date Team 1 asked for if Team 2 didn´t reply at all. Which is btw still not always the way it happens in the end, as pointed out by Thrawn earlier – there have been some truly random dates and hillarious rulings, and it´s not always that easy as it seems at first sight.
But in this special case, Team 2 didn´t even have the chance to react within 6 hours. They couldn´t even draw a wildcard as they didn´t notice the defdate on time, which is truly not their fault on such short notice – most people have real life business to take care of in the daytime. That´s simply unfair, even if their opponents made the huge effort to post a “Thursday 20.30 cet?” on the matchpage – there´s no way Woo could notice that date being set within a few hours and react to it in time. A default win is just plain wrong and it should be changed imo, maybe by taking one wildcard away from Woo or something to remind them to look at their matchpages/emails more often – but that should be it, and they should have their chance at playing this match.
And actually it´s not an attitude thing, as some try to make it look that way – if Woo wouldn´t care that much, they wouldn´t protest against this strange decision.
btw what I don´t really get, in this league of sportsmen, with all the fairness provided by most of its players – why does DR reject to replay the match? That´s actually the worst part for me, and shows some real lack of manners.
Quoted from Tob
[…]
Yes and we’re very sorry for that, but what you (or the admin, who set this date up) did is giving our opponent a nearly instant default win.
If there were any rules, that say:
“If you don’t write a date down at the match page, you’ll get a default loss”
there wont be any problems for us to accept this decision, but there are no such rules and for me this is just not fair.
and by the the way: it was the week 2 match ;)
You can schedule a game in 3 ways:
1) You post a message on the match page asking your opponent which days they can play or you post the days you’re available to play.
1A) Your opponents reply on the match page saying which days they can or can’t play. You narrow down the days until you both agree on a date. Date + time is proposed, accepted and there are no problems.
1B) Your opponents don’t reply. They show no interest in scheduling –> default date gets set on a date you suggested. No problems for your own team
Method 2) You add the opponent leader/war arranger on Steam.
2A) Your opponent accepts. You discuss a date, agree on something, copy/paste the agreement of the date onto the match page, game gets scheduled. No problems whatsoever.
2B) Your opponent doesn’t accept. You write on the match page that you added one of them to steam, but they don’t accept your invite. Suggest the days you want to play on the match page –> game gets defaulted to the time you suggest, no problems for your team again.
Method 3) You (or both teams) don’t give a fuck, game gets defaulted –> one team can’t play then and cries over the default loss.
Scheduling isn’t rocket science, just check the match page and write something on it. If you don’t, it’s your own problem, don’t blame the admins for it
Quoted from Reload
Methods 1-3 bla
that´s the way it SHOULD be, and it might actually be that way in 90 % of the cases, but that´s not how it works sometimes in reality – as shown here.
But you obviously didn´t even read this topics main issue before, which is the lack of time for the team to 1) notice 2) react to or 3) cry about the default date.
Quoted from Nuck
But in this special case, Team 2 didn´t even have the chance to react within 6 hours. They couldn´t even draw a wildcard as they didn´t notice the defdate on time, which is truly not their fault on such short notice – most people have real life business to take care of in the daytime. That´s simply unfair, even if their opponents made the huge effort to post a “Thursday 20.30 cet?” on the matchpage – there´s no way Woo could notice that date being set within a few hours and react to it in time. A default win is just plain wrong and it should be changed imo, maybe by taking one wildcard away from Woo or something to remind them to look at their matchpages/emails more often – but that should be it, and they should have their chance at playing this match.
And actually it´s not an attitude thing, as some try to make it look that way – if Woo wouldn´t care that much, they wouldn´t protest against this strange decision.
btw what I don´t really get, in this league of sportsmen, with all the fairness provided by most of its players – why does DR reject to replay the match? That´s actually the worst part for me, and shows some real lack of manners.
Team leaders/war arrangers will always receive an e-mail when a default date is set. If your opponent is smart he ticked the box ‘E-mail Opposition’ which would also mean your leader/arranger received the e-mail.
If your opponent refuses to play the match then they are most likely annoyed by your lack of interest in the match. Though you can say it’s not good sportsmanship, still you are the only one to blame for it. As soon as the season starts, all match pages are open for comments. If you decide not to look on a match page at all until it’s too late, then really it’s your own fault. As I said in my previous post, all it takes to prevent shit like this from happening is a single post on the match page
Quoted from Nuck
[…]
that´s the way it SHOULD be, and it might actually be that way in 90 % of the cases, but that´s not how it works sometimes in reality – as shown here.
But you obviously didn´t even read this topics main issue before, which is the lack of time for the team to 1) notice 2) react to or 3) cry about the default date.
I did read it. The problem you are describing is caused solely by your team not showing any effort. If a game gets defaulted on thursday, it means you have had at least 4 days in the current week and the entire previous week to take 30 seconds – 1 minute of your time and write anything on the match page
again, in short, the points are:
1) so most of you are okay with a 6h notice on default dates?
2) are you okay with it that it’s totally random >how< it will be decided when your default date is? (some admins say 24hrs minimum, some say only sundays or wednesdays, some say they cannot prefer the date of one team even though the other team didnt react at all and some give you a default date your wararranger could easily miss by simply being at work).
How is it a 6h notice?
The OP’s team has had 3 days to reply, to confim the game for thursday or to come up with another date. They didn’t so it gets default dated.
And this isn’t random either. The other team is the only team that suggests a date.
If no one replies on the match page and it gets defaulted to a ‘random’ date, then no one has the right to complain.
First of all, it´s not my team, I´m just a fellow warrior in the fight for fair and logical rulings ^^
Second, I don´t disagree with your methods, not at all, they just don´t fit or apply sometimes, which is the case here.
That leads me to 3rd: you missed the main point again, but whatever.
They looked at the matchpage, they were actually the first to post there – it´s the 6 hours from “date set” to “matchtime” that bugs them, a timespan when they happened not to look again by accident – and that´s understandable. And kinda unfair, as well as the missing time / chance to draw a wildcard or play the match at all.
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