Rule Change due to community disapproval.
March 8, 2009
Rule Change due to community disapproval.
After a wide spectrum of disapproval’s, insults and other malevolent comments, which made me feel sad for our growing community. We decided to turn around the rule so that the sandman can only be used If both teams agree upon using it. If one of the teams does not want the sandman it is forbidden:
Rule § 1.3.4 Scout unlocks: Force-a-nature + Energy drink allowed. Sandman is Forbidden.
It is allowed to use the scout unlocks: Force-a-nature and Energy drink. Sandman Forbidden. If both teams agree, Sandman limit can be set to 1 for a match.
The Rule is effective as of now in all running competitions.
Posted by jonni the juicy jew in League
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Coolio
cheerio
Well played.
yay, good choice
:> nice to see ETF2L is listening :)
Nice! Good decision :)
You made the right decision in the end ;)
I can see where you are coming from with the ‘made me feel sad’ comment, and I agree that some personally insulting comments towards the admins/league might have gone a bit too far. However, I don’t think it would ever have come to that if you had just gone with what most of the community wanted in the first place :)
Anyway it’s all sorted now, so lets live in love and harmony again!
good times
Thats better! :)
gj
nice
Allright!
yay, thank god for all the whiny babies who shit themselves and threatened to quit tf2 if the sandman was allowed. congratulations on getting your way, you enormous fags !!
that said i agree with banning the sandman but christ at the way it came about
Tbh, I was happy with sandman limit 1. But Now I don’t want to play TF2 with a bunch of idiots, who when something happens that they don’t like, they throw their toys out the pram. GG guys, GG.
I’m pretty indifferent towards the sandman, and either rule is fine. However, I find it quite appalling how some people reduce themself to such level of immaturity in their comments. While admins should’ve listened in the beginning, that doesn’t mean they couldn’t be right in putting it on limit 1, and people should be willing to try it — however, I also think it was a very untimely approach by enabling it mid-season, so I don’t think anything should’ve changed in the first place.
But still, there are better ways to go about solving things.
Yeah you guys got some insults which are unwarranted. However it is a striking reminder you should always talk to your community incase you upset them?
that rule is a good compromise! good to see the admins listening
Good job admins.
Now lifetime bans for anyone who insulted admins or threatened to kill them.
Compromise? Please look up the meaning of this word. Anyway, no undeserving threats by myself.
Nicely done :)
personally I wasn’t at home for 4 days, so I can’t tell you what happened, but it looks to me like a miss understanding . Ok, with some huge effect as we were able to see it … but everthing seems to be fine now, lets hug each other and play on.
SUCCESSFUL TROLLS ARE SUCCESSFUL
You seem to be confusing trolls with “an angry mob”.
I am pleased at this change, but again I think the league should consider some serious playtesting of all new weapons before allowing them into the league.
The sandman was my only concern because of my negative bias towards the weapon, but I just think that such a step would be a good rule to follow from this point on.
I world rly like to know how a big decision like this was made by like a minority(?) of the admins, seems rly akward to say the least
It seems like the admins took the right decision. it’s sorry to hear they got flammed cuz of it…
[…] små barns hot om att sluta spela… seriöst, vilka jävla nötter det finns) fick ETF2L att omvärdera sitt beslut att tillåta scoutens nya unlock The Sandman i ligans två sista […]
finally …
thanks.
Finally indeed. Pity my comment didn’t make it somehow. Because I stood for every little detail. The decision really made me wonder if admins play tf2 themselves or if they play in the league, or at least those who are responsible for it all. This is just so out of the question in any sports league or whatever, so it all makes me very curious. In fact, it did made me question how those people fare in real life intellectually. That was over the top. But really, just doing these things is outright arrogant and stupid, for various reasons.
And I really just love it. I gloat at the fact that there exists the bottom rung that will call critics out, labelling them as “fags”, “crybabies”, “immature” and even justifying them being tortured. You can speculate and call me all kinds of stuff. Really. The “threats” ordeal is also very darn funny. What? Are you the government? Tough that you don’t own us? Fact is that the individual clan probably need you more than etf2l need that individual clan, so a boycott should tell you something.
Good!
“# Sneis: okejra said:
March 8th, 2009 at 9:16 pm edit
I world rly like to know how a big decision like this was made by like a minority(?) of the admins, seems rly akward to say the least”
I am not sure where you got your information mate but the original decision was made by the MAJORITY of the admins, the others either didnt reply or was not in for the week.
I thought sandman limit 1 was reasonable, so this decision saddens me.
[…] Pēc vairāk kā 100 komentāriem, kas kritizēja ETF2L adminus par paviršo lēmumu, atļaujot izmantot Sandman, šodien ir notikusi noteikumu maiņa, ko varat redzēt šeit. […]
whiney babies. a little bit of variety during play isnt a bad thing. having to develop some new strategies in case someone plays a sandman is also not a bad thing.
this idd quite a sad day
good call.
Where’s Dunc in this thread? Where’s all the words like “retards” and other profane insults? Where’s all the speak of “division 1&2 players pwn teh w0rld!!!11”?
Seriously, this comes across as pretty bad in general. Massive whining and acting like children generates this polite back-down from the people who gives up MASSIVE AMOUNT OF TIME so that HUNDREDS OF CLANS can have fun each week?
I ran (and started) the ETFL for QWTF with Iceman (also of vVv) and this is magnitudes larger — still, I get the idea of how much work is put into this and I can’t help but to wish the big BANHAMMER to be brought out on some of the snotty morons, complaining like there’s no tomorrow around here. This is not about The Sandman being either this or that, it’s about a community being able to act like any other civil instance and, as dunc put it, “use their brains first, then post”. Wish he and his likes would be able to do the same thing.
Sad the TF2-scene who claims to be so friendly, can’t even be civil and polite to itself. It would come as no surprise if fnatic and other large MGOs never take that second look at TF2. Who would want to deal with this crap?
“Tis a sad day!”
Indeed.
“Sad the TF2-scene who claims to be so friendly, can’t even be civil and polite to itself. It would come as no surprise if fnatic and other large MGOs never take that second look at TF2. Who would want to deal with this crap?”
lolz, I can tell you that fnatic and the others don’t give a flying funk about some flaming on a community website. :D
And how is this a sad day for anyone. If you cool people out there want to use sandman, just get the other team to agree to it.
i don’t see the problem either either tbh
you could see the flame coming from miles away if you were more up-to-date with the scene, since everybody basically says the sandman is broken on the etf2l forums.
so yeh, might wanna consult forums and see what people who play the game at high level think before making your decision. They also put time into saying why the sandman is broken.
I just feel banning the sandman until it gets fixed was the obvious choice and so does 95% of the community hence the “flame”
Argon, please try and read the entire post. “This is not about The Sandman being either this or that” equals it had to do with the reactions, I for one personally welcome this change, but are quite ashamed over the wording.
Also, please refrain from making stuff up on the fly. I was in Excello in season 1 when excello won division 1. This kind of childish shit was nowhere to be seen and it was also shortly after this timeline when this self proclaimed “maturity” was announced broadly. Today, in season 5, it’s an entirely different story. No MGO would stand for having problems 24/7 and it’s kind of where this yet very small game is headed if space is given to crybabies. It’s not really bad _YET_ but why wait and twiddle thumbs when it’s starting to unfold already.
(NOT directed to anyone, just adding on the previous post) Just because CS is full of individuals with challanged mental capacity, doesn’t mean the tf2-scene has to copy it to reach the same status or amount of people playing it. TF2 has recently been nominated “best multiplayer game ever” by that PC Gamer magazine, try and act your age when the hordes of bozos arrive — and perhaps it will rub off. Any pre-competetive player will end up here, CEVO and UKESA and the first thing they will see is this… crap.
… And you wonder why it’s a “sad day”?
Hahaha I feel genuinely honoured to be mentioned by someone as universally despised as Gryzor :D Is it because I’m Haza’s new best eMate or am I worthy of the mention because I’m just an absolute c**t?
dunc: Well, that way, I didn’t have to hurt anyones feeling if I was too harsh, since I know you couldn’t care less. Win-win.
Of course people get upset when the league changes rules in the middle (end) of the season, when teams have the chance to get promoted to higher divisions. For example, in Dota, the latest STABLE version is used in leagues until the newest one is fully balanced. And Dota has one of the shittiest communities on the internet. :D
I fully agree Appe, just had hopes for higher standards in how some would treat and act against the people who makes the league(s) happen. It also doesn’t change my original point: If you want to change something — anything — I’d say this issue is an splendid example of how NOT to do it.
Again, please understand that it had nothing to do with “The Sandman”, but everything to do with the vast amount of comments containing profanity, threats and what-not in the original announcement.
A small “We really do not like your decision and changing the gameplay dramatically mid-season is unheard of in any leagueplay. Please change this NOW! Signed, /CLs of a bunch of clans”-notice would’ve produced the same result.
Perhaps it was foolish and naive of me to jot down my thoughts on this matter. Either way; I got to speak my mind.
Great to see you’re not too proud to admit your own mistakes. Good job!
Sandman was giving some new way to play, but you’re frustrated from a little tiny bonk that will change your strats, OMG SO HARD… how pathetic you are.
I totally agree with gryzor.
-1 to “I can’t compete in a league where the admins are so ignorant, dictatorial and stupid as you are!”
If you don’t agree with something you discuss it like adults and not like little cry-babies.
Another big thank-you to all the admins that put all the effort into making this league into what it has become today!
Lol, why would anyone care about the manner of posting/behaving rather than the actual result?! Are we on show here and being judged by the masses that we have to keep a certain decorum at all times? Sandman broke the game. ETF2L allowed it. We protested. ETF2L reverted their stance. If people are posting here and complaining about how ‘clan leader should post in a more formal way when discussing matters’, that’s just bullshit. This is the frekin internet for gods sake, and when did anyone care about how people behave on it?
95% percent of the community was against. All other major leagues banned it. Mid-season wasn’t the right place to introduce new and such game-changing rules. The admins made a bad call, and it’s all good now.
the only “cry-babies” here are the ones who call others for “cry-babies”.
i have now read all the 108 comments and can’t find a single one that is out of order. sometimes you must read between the lines.
and for the quote: “I can’t compete in a league where the admins are so ignorant, dictatorial and stupid as you are!” what about it? if he wants to leave the leage because he thinks the admins are “ignorant, dictatorial and stupid” that’s his buisness. i can’t see a cry-baby in that.
so, to all of you that thinks you are greater and more adult then others; put it down!
tbh even more the credit to the admins for rolling back from their initial decision and realizing that the majority of the community wanted to ban sandman. It came with a couple of bumps along the road but it was an important factor….
well done admins
You must remember, Sniple, that the self righteous comments are mostly from the bottom rung of the TF2-community. If they’re part of it at all. Many of those immature comments come from players that aren’t in the league or they’re in division 6 and play two hours a week.
And yeah, Sandman is variety and something new and we’re totally pathetic since we’re ALL a bunch of pathetic, low-lifes that don’t understand the game as well as you do, mr_plus. It’s obvious that the Sandman renders a lot of tactical elements useless with that ability for a class that’s already powerful. Oh and it makes scout a 1vs1 monster. Totally a way to go for the fastest class in the game.
Way to go blowing this out of proportion. :D
What Slick said, it’s great to see the admins not holding grudges and changing the rule in such a way that teams that feel like “spicing it up” can do so without bothering the ones that don’t with a stupidly OP weapon (“tiny little bonk”? Insta-kill more often than not).
great decision its not like u can adapt gameplay when a scout just runs round the corner and stuns you its freeking ridiculous. gj adminz
gyrzro:
Oh you played in excello, and won div1? :O
Please forgive me, I had no idea!
“I was in Excello in season 1 when excello won division 1. This kind of childish shit was nowhere to be seen…”
Wow, nostalgia trippin’ ftw? When I was young youngster had respect for their elders etc. etc.
“Also, please refrain from making stuff up on the fly.”
Erm, you said fnatic would never pick up a tf2 squad if the community was unfriendly. Then you mentioned that cod4/cs scene are immature, yet fnatic has squads representing them in those games. Connect the dots and you will find that your oh-so-dramatic statements like “It would come as no surprise if fnatic and other large MGOs never take that second look at TF2. Who would want to deal with this crap?” are well, not based on reality.
So how about you climb down from your great steed of maturity and morality and slum it down here with the rest of us. Or just gag yourself and condemn us fools silently, no one wants to hear you spout blatant bs all day long. =)
Cheerios.
Oh yes, I forgot to mention that I do applaud the admins for making the right decision and proving that they do listen to the community. Sometimes they should listen straight away to avoid this “silly immature drama”, but good call anyway.
http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Drama_Bomb
do want clicky to insert links.
Argronz,
The longest passage of text in your so called “reply”, has a quote of mine as headline. The quote being “please refrain from making stuff up on the fly”.
AND WHAT DO YOU DO? You proclaim that I said (slash wrote) that fnatic would never pickup a tf2-squad if the community was unfriendly.
Excuse me, Argon, but do you have a lot of bad luck while trying to complete a thought?
You go ahead and MAKE STUFF UP YET AGAIN, since I wrote no such damn thing. I wrote I would _not be surprised_ if they did not do it — nothing else! It was NO STATEMENT involving that they would _NEVER_ pick up a tf2-squad. It was a personal observation (this is a commentary/forumish-section, you know). I also never mentioned COD4. I _also_ never connected any dots concerning MGOs and Counterstrike.
Considering this, I presume you’re either the local jester, always trying to be offensive and trolling every comment you see — or a pathological liar. From this I conclude you’re not taking your own post seriously, and hence, I will not treat it as such.
“LOLOLOLO!! +1 ARGONZ!! FTW!!111one go pwn ‘dem n00bz0rs!!11”
gyrzroz:
tl:dr
Thank you.
Top 10 Ragers, anyone? DemouRAGE and gryzor have their places for sure. Josh too.
ok, had some more time now gyrzro, so i tried reading through your post with some thought.
I couldn’t understand it. Could you translate it to english, and get back to me asap. Thanks m8.
“do you have a lot of bad luck while trying to complete a thought?” sweet irony ^_ ^
All i was trying to say is that it would be nice to show a little more respect to the admins who put a lot of effort into this league.
Awesome, thank you guys.
Argon: Acknowledging your own lack of understanding the written word is commendable. Congratulations, not many has this insight about their own shortcommings!
Due to your very civil tone and sincerity, I will be happy to help you out!
My nick on IRC is “gryzor”, if you use /msg gryzor HELO :D I can’t understand , I’d be more then happy to try and help you understand any parts of my posts that you find hard to understand.
Have a very nice day, Argzon, and thanks for using my pun of misspelling your nick (unintentionally at first), I just love people copying me.
After all, people mimicking you is the greatest form of flattery.
You’re so sweet! <3
Just lol.
Anyway, beside the new flame war arising, glad to see you acted quite quickly on that admins – just a shame you had to suffer so much abuse.
Gryzor please try to behave like a mature person in this internet forum dedicated to gaming (which is serious business) and not flame such hard working persons such as agron who has over 500 russians in his friendlist and is such a good medic who many people look up to.
It truly saddens me seeing people like you flame others on these forums and not act friendly, civil and polite like we expect every member of this community to do.
(SEE WHAT I DID THAR? :DS:D) now fuck off. (and agron before you get all excited i didnt mean a word what i said about you HAH!)
thank you seppo dearest =)
I must admit I wouldn’t want to copy gryzlol to the fullest. After all, he is a person who has promised to kill the parents of several well known finnish tf2 players if he ever got the chance. He is a scary man indeed. And apparently as bad in qwtf as he is in tf2 =)
cheers m8 grzylol, all the best. <3
This is getting out of hand. I thought there would be a lot of applause for the change that was made, yet people are still flaming each over a weapon in a game.
There’s no reason for it. If people are upset over a decision made, they should try and state their views without having to reference someone else unless it’s to give a solid counter argument.
“Be more constructive with your feedback, please.”
they just cant stand the fact that me > them, thats why they flame.
ALL IN.
It’s kinda funna that some people actually started flaming people here because of flaming done in a different topic!?! :P Hypocrisy at it’s finest :)
On Topic;
Great job admins, you made the right call in the end.
THERE WAS MUCH REJOICING! :)
Don’t be so afraid of change..
And in most FPS games there are somesort of stun/distorting or similar effects that affect gameplay flow.
Ex. any modern FPS, a granade flys abit too close and you can’t hear anything but “beeep” and screen goes all blurry for few seconds. (or in the past concs, flash, etc.)
Just to point out, stuns can and have worked in FPS games, but you whine if you happen to be stunned few times.
^
just to point out, you can usually shoot and/or move while “beeped and blurried”. And usually the method of stun is a nade, like a stun nade or flashbang, and the latter you can evade by averting your “eyes”.
Stun has worked in FPS games, yes, but the way sandman implements stun is just flawed.
WTF!? I am really disappointed at the etf2l admin. Just because some little kids whine so should it not destroy the destroy the whole game. If so then I want the über to be ban or maby the pryo;-, spy;-, sniper;- class ban
english mofo, speak it?
It is not just some little kids whining. It is an opinion of a large majority of the community.
Why should new important rules be decided by a very small minority and forced upon the rest of us against our wills ?
Many of us aren’t kids by the way..
The admins are in general doing a very good job for the community and it was a very brave decision to admit they were wrong and remove the rule about the Sandman limit 1.
However, a poll would have been preferable to this mess…