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High div players joining lower divs during season.

Created 28th May 2014 @ 22:35

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Kuferl

(TF2Pickup.net Unicorn)

So, my team just got this ‘problem’
We are div3 and a prem player joined our opponents team yesterday, and we’re playing them tomorrow. (http://etf2l.org/matches/50693/)

I admit, i mostly write this because i don’t wanna play against a prem player onclassing, we’re div3, and thats how the admins thought our and all other teams level is. No arguing. And just ot be sure, if we lose, we lose, no hard feelings. But the thought in general that prem players can freely sandbag a team is bugging me…

i talked with kkaltu over irc about this, here’s the pastebin: [Please don’t post admin chatlogs without permission]

The main thing i don’t understand, and i don’t see a reason in it is this quote from kkaltu (line 42) : “The players’ previous history doesn’t really matter if he’s rostered. Prem teams are able to have div 6 players on their rosters and vice versa”

So a prem player could join a div6 team during the season and it still would be legit. anybody else seeing a problem there?

I mentioned it in the conversation as well: if a high div player joins a team before the season, i see no problem at all with it, as results will show what impact he has on the team and admins can ‘judge’ it. But if a high div player joins a lower div (i’m talking about 2 divs and more below) during the season, there certainly should be some kind of a rule.

Maybe I’m the only one thinking like that, if so well then blame me.
But I’d like to hear (general) opinions of other people, maybe some are in the same situation or whatever

Starkie

it sucks but its not easy to prevent it

fraac

JOHN
CENATION

You could easily have a commonsense rule, but you know admins would say it was unenforceable.

Even if huhy plays demo you should win that game, btw.

ash

(Legend)

There’s always the issue as to how to create a ruling that’s both fair and actually realistically useable, taking into account:
– off/onclassing
– serious/not-so-serious teams
– skill differences are different between different divisions, and often there’s quite a the skill gap even within a single division
– people who were div1/prem several years ago usually are not on the level of current div1/prem players

huhystah

eh, we lost to some russian team, so i don’t see why anyone else wouldn’t be able to win ;D If your team is good, you will do just fine

Popcorp

that’s the most cheapest way to win Div 3

LOL @ Tutorial

P.S: MightyMe doesnt have a team, grab him Div 3-4 teams


Last edited by Popcorp,

Permzilla

(Legend)
LANTURTLE
WiK?

Quoted from fraac

You could easily have a commonsense rule, but you know admins would say it was unenforceable.

Let’s look at some of things I can think of, for this easy rule
-How do you define a player’s main class?
-How good at each class is the player?
-Which div should we allow a player to play each offclass ?
-Why should we restrict someone wanting to relax in a lower div and have some fun?

That’s all I can think of from the top of my head, if you think individually assessing 4 classes for every single player wanting to move down a division is “easily enforceable” then i don’t have much to say to that.

Freakie

.awkward

Quoted from Permzilla

[…]

Let’s look at some of things I can think of, for this easy rule
-How do you define a player’s main class?
-How good at each class is the player?
-Which div should we allow a player to play each offclass ?
-Why should we restrict someone wanting to relax in a lower div and have some fun?

That’s all I can think of from the top of my head, if you think individually assessing 4 classes for every single player wanting to move down a division is “easily enforceable” then i don’t have much to say to that.

MEANWHILE

http://etf2l.org/teams/20219/

Fuxx

Oh look it’s this discussion again

Remember when people complained about JoeNUFC in UGC Steel
Remember when people complained about MightyMe in div5

Rules have been changed with less drama and threads, just FYI

huhystah

To clear things up, it wasn’t tutorial or anyone else from the team trying to bribe me to join the team (in fact i only know tutorial from stacked hl team). I joined them to fill in the demoman slot just because kasabubu’s PC died and i felt like helping out for a bit.


Last edited by huhystah,

droso

Blg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Gn9A-kdsRo

fraac

JOHN
CENATION

Quoted from Permzilla

[…]

Let’s look at some of things I can think of, for this easy rule
-How do you define a player’s main class?
-How good at each class is the player?
-Which div should we allow a player to play each offclass ?
-Why should we restrict someone wanting to relax in a lower div and have some fun?

That’s all I can think of from the top of my head, if you think individually assessing 4 classes for every single player wanting to move down a division is “easily enforceable” then i don’t have much to say to that.

You just make judgement calls. The rule would be “If you’re playing in a lower division consult an admin” and then you look at it case by case. It’s called leadership. Not enforceable by a dumb machine, no.

fraac

JOHN
CENATION

Then again, some human idiot put your team in div2. So, yeah, forget it.

Freakie

.awkward

Quoted from fraac

[…]

You just make judgement calls. The rule would be “If you’re playing in a lower division consult an admin” and then you look at it case by case. It’s called leadership. Not enforceable by a dumb machine, no.

I’d argue doing it case-by-case would involve the same amount of judgement calls.

Fuxx

btw: I don’t see anything wrong with a div3 team having 1 prem guy. Haunter did the same and everyone was fine with it

The lack of rules however really leave a lot of room for abuse (see mine and freakie’s examples)

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