[ETF2L] Experimental HL Cup #6 Questions & Feedback

Created 22nd February 2015 @ 22:30

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Quoted from DCS

Well, we unbanned the cleaner´s carbine… :3




Last edited by Twisted,



Quoted from DCS

the cleaner´s carbine

has any sniper ever used this



Quoted from Maxi


has any sniper ever used this

well duh, its been banned before now we’ll see it ran constantly cause its so diverse and useful.


After looking over Keikoku yesterday with Mighty Burger, we pretty much found out it was hell on earth for the attacking combo to attack both points. There are so many checkpoints that the defending combo can hold down, and so many areas where the Sniper can make a pick from a safe distance that it’s quite honestly ridiculous. This is also without factoring the strong sentry positions and the difficulty the attacking flank has to make a considerable impact on the map.



Quoted from MARS^


On another note, I don’t know how seriously you want to be taken by admins reading this but stating the same thing 5 times and then stating that we should ban pyro instead won’t make any admin think that you are being serious (yes you, hildreth).

I can just message an admin on steam if I want to be taken seriously, why do I need a lecture from you?

And seriously lets stop banning unlocks, have we not learned anything from 7 years of comp tf2?

Last edited by Hildreth,

[email protected]

Banned unlocks are not what stops Valve from supporting comp tf2 or what was your argument?

There are weapons that need to be banned, period.



I’ll try to do this while holding the tears back. I thought highlander was all about promoting the use of various unlocks and different playstyles, and here you go and ban one that is barely ever used. The cleaver is by no means overpowered, since you give up quite a lot in order to use it properly. One of the squishiest classes in the game loses 15 max health and is without a reliable secondary in close combat, putting him in a severe disadvantage against other scouts. Not to mention, that in order to actually achieve the dreaded “one shot kill” you need to successfully hit the same target with two projectiles, on different cooldowns, with different arcs within a few seconds of eachother. The sandman ball will also have to be fired from at least a medium, but preferably long range. This is no easy task and even if you were to hit them the only guaranteed class to kill is the medic since he can’t have a buff, and good luck singling him out in the middle of the combo. Even a light class can survive a cleave if he’s being actively healed.

I just feel that a weapon that rewards experience, aim and prediction shouldn’t be banned, especially if it doesn’t do more damage than any of the sniper rifles than can either headshot or fully charged body shot on command, with no cooldown to wait for in between attempts.

Someone mentioned something about the cleaver giving the scout the unfair ability to perform long range kills (easy right?) which the class wasn’t supposed to be able to do. Then on the other hand we have the engineer with the gunslinger, one of the most annoying and overpowered weapons in the game. Not only that but it changes one of the defensive classes into an offensive one. (And lets not even bring up sticky spamming)

Now I’m not here to bash anyone or point fingers, I simply want you to reconsider your decision on this. And to finish things off: “very annoying to play against” has got to be the worst reason I’ve ever heard to disallow a weapon. “I got cleaved once and I didn’t like it one bit!” Grow up and find a way to counter it rather than restricting people who don’t follow the meta

Wall of text crits you for 9001 damage



Beggar’s bazooka – well… I’m ambivalent about this one. From a pyro’s POV this is counterable but on the event of a bomb it requires a lot of effort and perfect positioning from the pyro, much more than a bomb with default. The downside is that IMO this weapon is weaker on direct combat, so fight the soldier off before he can bomb is probably the answer. Still, the bombing ability plus the fact it reloads faster than default… I don’t like banning weapons but I can see the argument for this one

Cleaver – Should be allowed. Cleaver is only truly effective with the sandman combo, and I think the sandman on its own is much more irritating than the cleaver, especially for heavies. The stun is much more reliable and disrupting than the potential chance of getting a crit kill with the cleaver.

Sandman – eh… it’s deadly if used right but it can be reflected by pyros and it leaves the scout with less health. If a heavy is in position to get hit by this he can be sniped just as easily. I guess it’s fine.

Loch-n-Load – Much stronger in its current form than it used to be. In maps like viaduct it’s an upgrade to stock. Again I don’t like banning weapons but if you’re going to do it, look at this one… UGC banned it.

And a couple of words about DR/spycicle gun spy since I main pyro… honestly I thought this was perfectly balanced until I started running against spies who are so good with revolvers (amby being the most difficult to deal with from a pyro’s POV since the spy can be completely outside your effective range) that they can be effective no matter how many times you melt the spycicle. I don’t think it’s enough to ban any of the items – honestly, force your flank classes to chase spies more and free the pyro to be more aggressive and you’re good to go, IMO.

I would like to see a small nerf to the spycicle where a pyro melting it creates a “shock” effect similar to what the razorback does, so you can’t immediately switch to your gun and have a good chance of killing the pyro or even the medic next to him. But eh. I can live with this.



Quoted from [email protected]

Banned unlocks are not what stops Valve from supporting comp tf2 or what was your argument?

Cos it’s boring to play the same unlocks.

And rather than thinking of how to counter a weapon, we just ban it. So boring, so stupid.



Bazaar is still broken as fuck in servers with no random crits:



I don’t understand the crying about the Flying Guillotine being removed for this cup. It’s an experimental whitelist for just this cup to try out new maps.

If you encounter a scout who’s being a dick with his cleaver+sandman combo you’ll never get to see any of the map, just removing shitty combos during map testing isn’t such an awful idea and probably a wise decision.

And seriously gamers, click the ‘allow cleaver’ on and click ‘generate whitelist’ to get the whitelist with ID: 3065 and go fucking mental in your lobbies, just don’t use the whitelist during the officials in the ONC?!

I’d love to see a ‘no banned items’ whitelist, except the obviously broken ones, next season.
– Bazaar Bargain gathering heads on nocrit servers
– Pretty Boy (passive +15hp)
– BFB (don’t fuck with scout movement speed)
– Pomson/Vita-saw (don’t mess with ubers)
– Darwin’s (dodge maybe/secondscope)
– Enforcer (I’d rather you stab me 3 times)

I despise sunshine as a map (any 5cp in HL), but it will be fun to see how it’s being played.



Personally I’m not really paying attention to the cup whitelist, just discussing the whitelist that will eventually be used in S8. But I mostly agree with you wiethoofd.

Last edited by 4hp,


(ETF2L Donator)

Quoted from DCS


the cleaver itself is not a problem, but the combo with the sandman is very annoying to play against. (:

i presume we are banning pyro from highlander too if we are banning things that are annoying to play against

also i couldn’t be bothered reading 4 pages of text so someone may have raised the pyro is annoying point

Last edited by birdy,


May as well bring back the Reserve Shooter if people are in this much uproar about a Secondary. Not forgetting as well that the Guillotine has the ability to Mini-Crit from Distance, cause bleed damage and only takes seconds to regen. The potential for Scout to take pot shots from distance can be pretty devastating in the right hands. But then again it requires a lot of luck (unless you have god like aim) and I feel a majority of Scouts would only use it as part of the Sandman combo which makes them fragile. So imo it shouldn’t be banned for Season 8, but i’m ok with it being banned for this “EXPERIMENTAL” Cup.



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