Forum
Something you might want to look at in regards to the ETF2L forums
Created 28th April 2011 @ 00:18
Add A Reply Pages: « Previous 1 2 3 4 5 Next »
Quoted from CrashSite
I understood the point of the article and my response was that although I like it as a concept I do not think it would work in etf2l. I am in favor of a separate place (get on it Torden) where we can have informed discussions, but I think the problem does not lie in the content that people post, but rather the lack of genuine response to these posts.
…a sub-section of the etf2l forums that can be viewed by everyone, but only by invite can people post there, would be constructive. I would personally use another site and make sure the admins of all three leagues were there….
1 reason why etf2l would be the best place: it’s got many people. as long as “that other site” did not offer extremely more than etf2l, I’d doubt it’d be used really.
Quoted from Dummy
just make a sub section for ‘serious’ threads on ETF2L, ban any random threads and random replies for a couple of weeks from the sub section, etc
can’t we say: if it’s not in off topic, it’s srs mode?
Edit: good one, swarlz
Last edited by Waebi,
Quoted from Swarlz
I for one personally believe the ETF2L forums to be in perfect nick Skylinerider. We really have some in depth discussions on unlocks and bans and to be perfectly honest we have always found a valid solution from the valuable and valid points that have been put forward and discussed. I would say the only downfall is the depth of discussion we go into and analytical focus we have on posts that can really become boring and tiring. I myself spend endless nights trying and testing people’s points of view in am attempt to improve on them and add my own ideas and even attempt to implement the opinions of others.
Phew, I almost fell for it.
Quoted from Spike Himself
ok so it cant be viewed by everyone..
idiot.
Quoted from Waebi
[…]
1 reason why etf2l would be the best place: it’s got many people. as long as “that other site” did not offer extremely more than etf2l, I’d doubt it’d be used really.
[…]
can’t we say: if it’s not in off topic, it’s srs mode?
Edit: good one, swarlz
Those are good points. But I think the point would to have discussion of just a few members. I would like to see it include all the admins from etf2l, wireplay and esl. So discussion involving anything bigger than a single league can be discussed by the ‘higher ups’. Then sub-sections for each league.
On top of the admins I would like people who are regular, constructive contributors on the forum, ones who make valid points. Ideally they would be neutral parties to all discussions. At the moment those would be unlocks and maps. Failing that, people who are at least not on the extremes of either side. Doesn not mean they can’t have a view point, rather that they will listen and learn from others, instead of just replying.
etf2l ban more than u think
Really it all boils down to pointless elitism, people who think they’re above others and the general attitude of “my idea is better than yours, fuck off”. Ban these people with these mentalities, and 50% of your problems disappear.
Debates on unlocks, for example, have always been treated like a “div6 shitty opinion versus prem/div1 holy words”. If premier/div1 people put a little bit of feedback into why they prefer vanilla+medlocks instead of “oh, no vanilla+medlocks, qq move to esl” and lower divs put forward more convincing arguments than “it’s fun, hurr”, we’d see a lot more people appreciating the voices of those with experience. I’m not taking potshots at anyone here, this is how I see it from so many unlock threads.
If people actually took time to think before they post (I sometimes take like what, 10 minutes? just thinking of how to reply, resulting in walls of text) and make it a little less offensive, the community can move forward.
tl;dr – improve your attitudes, make clear and reasonable posts, be less offensive to one another, and we dont have to resort to the ban hammer.
Quoted from FIR
Holy Truth
I was going to say something like this, but in the end cba’d to write it out in a mediating tone, but yeah, this. Also I think ETF2L should be more obvious with their forum bans, and also give warnings etc.
Quoted from FIR
Debates on unlocks, for example, have always been treated like a “div6 shitty opinion versus prem/div1 holy words”.
They are in prem because they are the better players, not because they were randomly selected and given a random label that says “premiership”.
If prem says weapon x is terrible for 6v6 play, and you disagree with it, there’s a huge chance that you’re simply doing it wrong, or to put it more bluntly: “get good”
Quoted from Wabbeh
Also I think ETF2L should be more obvious with their forum bans, and also give warnings etc.
Forum bans are a relatively new addition to the site, I think. Only head admins can even see who is forum banned and for how long. Forum warnings are as technically advanced as a post saying “this is your final warning”, and it takes a head admin to make any sort of ban, so needless to say there aren’t as many as we would like.
Quoted from FIR
Really it all boils down to pointless elitism, people who think they’re above others and the general attitude of “my idea is better than yours, fuck off”. Ban these people with these mentalities, and 50% of your problems disappear.
Debates on unlocks, for example, have always been treated like a “div6 shitty opinion versus prem/div1 holy words”. If premier/div1 people put a little bit of feedback into why they prefer vanilla+medlocks instead of “oh, no vanilla+medlocks, qq move to esl” and lower divs put forward more convincing arguments than “it’s fun, hurr”, we’d see a lot more people appreciating the voices of those with experience. I’m not taking potshots at anyone here, this is how I see it from so many unlock threads.
If people actually took time to think before they post (I sometimes take like what, 10 minutes? just thinking of how to reply, resulting in walls of text) and make it a little less offensive, the community can move forward.
tl;dr – improve your attitudes, make clear and reasonable posts, be less offensive to one another, and we dont have to resort to the ban hammer.
good arguments were put forward plenty of times in favour of vanlocks, but it seems nobody remembers them over other, more blunt posts like xzar’s, who got bored of repeating the same stuff over and over again I guess, I would :p
Quoted from Spike Himself
[…]
They are in prem because they are the better players, not because they were randomly selected and given a random label that says “premiership”.
If prem says weapon x is terrible for 6v6 play, and you disagree with it, there’s a huge chance that you’re simply doing it wrong, or to put it more bluntly: “get good”
Remember that good players (just like xzr) let their emotions get the best of them and they use their status to gain credibility, just like people do everywhere else. You should never automatically assume that they are correct, especially in the unlock discussion where more aspects need to be taken into consideration, and there being disagreements amongst top players.
Anyway, much can be said about this, but this is not the place.
I understand and agree with what Skyride is saying. I don’t know what kind of a system would be best, but there is indeed need for a place where public discussion can be held. Currently, I’ve stopped debating in public due to the problem described by Skyride, but I would like to be able to discuss openly with more people than just the ones I know.
Seeing as ETF2L is a community league, players have high expectations on us to be open and somewhat easy-going (I would assume at least). That’s how ETF2L has been so far, and even then, there are random accusations being made about admins closing inconvenient threads and whatnot. If a TL-like system were to be put in place, I don’t know what would happen. Could go badly, could go well, no idea.
In any case, there is definitely a need for a better forum moderation system (we have discussed it a bit), and a lot more punishments need to be handed out.
Quoted from FIR
Really it all boils down to pointless elitism, people who think they’re above others and the general attitude of “my idea is better than yours, fuck off”. Ban these people with these mentalities, and 50% of your problems disappear.
Debates on unlocks, for example, have always been treated like a “div6 shitty opinion versus prem/div1 holy words”. If premier/div1 people put a little bit of feedback into why they prefer vanilla+medlocks instead of “oh, no vanilla+medlocks, qq move to esl” and lower divs put forward more convincing arguments than “it’s fun, hurr”, we’d see a lot more people appreciating the voices of those with experience. I’m not taking potshots at anyone here, this is how I see it from so many unlock threads.
If people actually took time to think before they post (I sometimes take like what, 10 minutes? just thinking of how to reply, resulting in walls of text) and make it a little less offensive, the community can move forward.
tl;dr – improve your attitudes, make clear and reasonable posts, be less offensive to one another, and we dont have to resort to the ban hammer.
Problem is that anyone with an intelligent word to say on the matter already did so until they were blue in the face but to no avail, and has long since abandoned the debate.
Last edited by kaidus,
Quoted from Spike Himself
[…]
They are in prem because they are the better players, not because they were randomly selected and given a random label that says “premiership”.
If prem says weapon x is terrible for 6v6 play, and you disagree with it, there’s a huge chance that you’re simply doing it wrong, or to put it more bluntly: “get good”
I never doubted premiership opinions, you’re marking me out as someone who’s out for prem blood, but I’m not. I’m merely stating things as they are.
But let’s take your point of view. If indeed Europe’s premier players are the best, does that mean Americans who can play equally well with unlocks (like SolidSnake and his demoknight) are total shitters? They make games just as exciting, yet I see no whining about unlocks as much as I do here.As much as I am in favour of vanlocks, I never, not once ever, said that unlocks were not viable. Just by saying that, you’ve already shown that there is segregation in the community in a so-called “community” league.
No doubt prem/div1 are far more experienced than me, that much I agree. But as someone who is often with the community, I always think that those on the highest level of play should at least give leeway to those who genuinely do not know why vanlocks > others. In regards to kaidus’ post, if there are people who’ve had things explained a billion times to them and yet does not enter their thick skulls, I think it’s safe to classify them under the “my idea is better than yours, fuck off” category, and should bans be implemented, I daresay I will not be sorry to see them go.
So Spike, if Americans think Charge and Targe is okay for high level play, does this mean they’re not worthy of the “premiership” title and that they should “get good”? If you can answer that without looking like an elitist, by all means be my guest, because that statement above stinks of “oh you div6 shitnerd saying things he doesn’t understand”.
Last edited by FIR,
As ever, the question that should be asked is “why add it?”
What does Charge and Targe bring that makes the game so exciting? Is it fun to see a demo zoom around a corner with the click of a button and one shot a medic? Sure. Is it viable competitively? I’d say no.
It just introduces far too many variables, when there is a subtle metagame in place already through positioning, rollouts and aggression without the uber. Unlocks wreck this and introduce a completely different game. We don’t like it, the Americans do. That’s the extent of it.
Add A Reply Pages: « Previous 1 2 3 4 5 Next »
content rss