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Competitive CFG comparison video
Created 10th February 2014 @ 22:33
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Quoted from Spike Himself
[…]
ETF2L community in a nutshell: Bashing admins in the most uninformed way possible.
(ok, to be entirely fair, that actually only applies to a minority)It’s a community league, folks. If a rule appears incorrect or odd, create a discussion thread about it!
As for this particular case; we cannot possibly validate server settings for each and every match played, so it’s up to the teams to verify everything is ok. If you find something wrong, you can contact an admin and the case can be investigated. If you don’t, then nobody will ever know. If you only find out a week or more later that something may or may not have been wrong in a game, then evidently it was not a big deal. Still, if you feel a player performed suspiciously well or the game felt unfair in any other way, by all means contact an admin.
As for ETF2L enforcing made up rules, I don’t think that’s actually ever happened – at least not recently. If you find the opposite to be true, talk to a head admin.
admin status: [ ] not baited [x] baited
It’s not practical to verify that every single setting on a match server is correct before playing an official match, and I’m not even sure if it’s possible. So in most cases, you just have to assume that the server is correctly configured prior to playing said match. If it comes up after the match that the server was improperly configured, whether intentional or not, it should invalidate the match since you did not play the match properly.
In this case, not having sv_pure enabled is a fairly serious infraction since it allows you to install custom materials, including mathacks. This gives an unfair advantage to the player abusing materials. Since it is possible that a player used mathacks during this match, due to improper server configurations, I wouldn’t consider the results valid.
Quoted from ondkaja
[…]
It’s not practical to verify that every single setting on a match server is correct before playing an official match, and I’m not even sure if it’s possible. So in most cases, you just have to assume that the server is correctly configured prior to playing said match. If it comes up after the match that the server was improperly configured, whether intentional or not, it should invalidate the match since you did not play the match properly.
Yep that sums up my previous post pretty well. Again, just contact an admin if you find that something was wrong.
In this case, not having sv_pure enabled is a fairly serious infraction since it allows you to install custom materials, including mathacks. This gives an unfair advantage to the player abusing materials. Since it is possible that a player used mathacks during this match, due to improper server configurations, I wouldn’t consider the results valid.
Yep, it’s entirely possible that something like that happened. Personally I wouldn’t consider it valid either, but as I was not a player in one of the teams, I do not have the information to judge appropriately. Like I said, if someone in that game felt that something was unfair one way or another, they should contact an admin.
Maybe you’re mixing up competitive gaming and default hunting. If both teams felt the game was fair then that’s the end of it, really
Last edited by Spike Himself,
Quoted from Spike Himself
[…]
ETF2L community in a nutshell: Bashing admins in the most uninformed way possible.
(ok, to be entirely fair, that actually only applies to a minority)[…]
If you only find out a week or more later that something may or may not have been wrong in a game, then evidently it was not a big deal. Still, if you feel a player performed suspiciously well or the game felt unfair in any other way, by all means contact an admin.
This is not the place to start a discussion about this (HAH BUT IM STILL DOING IT) but your post is just based on an ideal of how things should work, and not on reality. So the person making misinformed statements is in this case you, the admin himself.
I don’t care about the practicalities of these specific incidents; as admins you can do whatever you want with them, and history has proven that you will. That’s fine, this is a community ran league, admins are volunteers. We all appreciate your efforts and dedication. It becomes problematic though when you start denying this modus operandi. And that’s what seems to happen occasionally.
First off: If I’m reading your post correctly, your excuse for not enforcing the rule after the fact can be boiled down to the principle of “nobody involved had any objections to not using sv_pure 2”. I won’t even begin to describe the implications of this, as you yourself know that this is a risky statement to make. If there are additional reasons for not enforcing the rules after the fact in this particular case, then you should have either completely elaborated on them, or not even started to adress the issue in the first place, because all you have achieved now is to have dug yourself in a tough spot.
Second:
As for ETF2L enforcing made up rules, I don’t think that’s actually ever happened – at least not recently. If you find the opposite to be true, talk to a head admin.
[15:15] SWAGGIECHEWIE: may i request an official ETF2L nick change ?
[15:15] Permzilla: no
[15:16] Permzilla: cant change mid season
[15:19] skeej: [15:16] Permzilla: cant change mid season - Where does it say this in the rules?
[15:19] Permzilla: i dont care if it says it in the rules or not
[15:19] Permzilla: theres a lot that isnt in the rules
http://0.media.collegehumor.cvcdn.com/52/32/1905c1290569414900508712ecad9113-micdrop06.gif
Last edited by skeej,
Quoted from skeej
[…]
This is not the place to start a discussion about this (HAH BUT IM STILL DOING IT) but your post is just based on an ideal of how things should work, and not on reality. So the person making misinformed statements is in this case you, the admin himself.
I’m not sure how striving for improvement makes my statements misinformed. Actually I’m not really following at all..
I know I said there is nothing we can do to actually make sure sv_pure 2 is enforced. This is hardly a secret. We simply haven’t the resources for it (manpower, tools, ..). All we can do is make a rule that says it’s required, so at the very least we can do something when we do find out misuse. The same probably applies to many other rules.
First off: If I’m reading your post correctly, your excuse for not enforcing the rule after the fact can be boiled down to the principle of “nobody involved had any objections to not using sv_pure 2”.
That’s not quite what I meant to suggest. I was more aiming at the fact we can’t even begin to prove or investige when nobody has complained about it (i.e. nobody in the admin team was aware). But yeah I didn’t word that quite as accurately as I could or should have.
Of course we are not fine with teams mutually agreeing on breaking the rules and keeping it to themselves, but realistically, in many cases, there isn’t much we can do about it. We want to, trust me, but like I said we lack the resources.
Still, I am not going to go back to this match to invalidate it. If the opponents, who were possibly at a disadvantage, feel that the game was fair, then for all I care the game was fair. If not, they can contact an admin and the most likely outcome of that would indeed be the match ending up invalidated and replayed. I just don’t feel it’s our call to make right now, especially as the result has been there for a while already.
(it is possible people have misused sv_pure not being 2, it’s equally possible they have not. flat textures, while usually impossible, hardly have an impact on a game so much that it means a team will win where they would otherwise have lost – in this particular case both maps ended 5-0)
Again, that doesn’t mean we are ok with rule breaks. I just like to keep in mind the reason we are here and the reason these rules exist: to host a league for teams to play against eachother – and that is exactly what happened.
[15:15] SWAGGIECHEWIE: may i request an official ETF2L nick change ?
[15:15] Permzilla: no
[15:16] Permzilla: cant change mid season
[15:19] skeej: [15:16] Permzilla: cant change mid season - Where does it say this in the rules?
[15:19] Permzilla: i dont care if it says it in the rules or not
[15:19] Permzilla: theres a lot that isnt in the ruleshttp://0.media.collegehumor.cvcdn.com/52/32/1905c1290569414900508712ecad9113-micdrop06.gif
Perm is a head admin and I am not. I’m not going to defend what he said though. Hopefully I’ll be able to get back on this later.
Last edited by Spike Himself,
So everyone can make sv_pure 0 servers and mat hack as long as they make topic with “oh i didnt know” and enemy doesnt notice? Or in this case sv_pure 1 with specific whitelist which prolly means its almost impossible to notice unless you check server sv_pure setting in console.
I bet theres literally handful of teams in d6 anyway who understand what sv pure means and how 0 differs from 2 or 1.
I still think he deserves punishment, even if its just a team warning.
Last edited by AnimaL,
ITT
I show a video I made as request, ended up being what rules are wrong and right?
etf2l forums in a nutshell.
Quoted from AnimaL
So everyone can make sv_pure 0 servers and mat hack as long as they make topic with “oh i didnt know” and enemy doesnt notice? Or in this case sv_pure 1 with specific whitelist which prolly means its almost impossible to notice unless you check server sv_pure setting in console.
I bet theres literally handful of teams in d6 anyway who understand what sv pure means and how 0 differs from 2 or 1.
I still think he deserves punishment, even if its just a team warning.
It isn’t on the “rules” page, and I run the etf2l config, what you suggest is a bit weird, you suggest you me to through all etf2l configs to see what settings they use? no, you just execute them and expect everything to be alright. Maybe the admins could put it on the rules or config page, so it is more clear.
Last edited by Bona,
Quoted from Bona
[…]
It isn’t on the “rules” page, and I run the etf2l config, what you suggest is a bit weird, you suggest you me to through all etf2l configs to see what settings they use? no, you just execute them and expect everything to be alright. Maybe the admins could put it on the rules or config page, so it is more clear.
Funny you say that, because it is on the rules page.
5.5 Servers must be started with “-sv_pure”
Match servers must have the parameter “-sv_pure” or “-sv_pure 2″ in the launch options to support the sv_pure setting. sv_pure must be set to 2 in all ETF2L competitions.
Quoted from Bona
[…]
It isn’t on the “rules” page, and I run the etf2l config, what you suggest is a bit weird, you suggest you me to through all etf2l configs to see what settings they use? no, you just execute them and expect everything to be alright. Maybe the admins could put it on the rules or config page, so it is more clear.
5.5 Servers must be started with “-sv_pure”
Match servers must have the parameter “-sv_pure” or “-sv_pure 2″ in the launch options to support the sv_pure setting. sv_pure must be set to 2 in all ETF2L competitions.
Yes, it is in the rules.
Last edited by profix,
Quoted from skeej
ik geef deze topic 2 kankersteentjes
erg lief <3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=iqBy3ul2P-o#t=61
Last edited by Bona,
Quoted from ondkaja
In this case, not having sv_pure enabled is a fairly serious infraction since it allows you to install custom materials, including mathacks. This gives an unfair advantage to the player abusing materials. Since it is possible that a player used mathacks during this match, due to improper server configurations, I wouldn’t consider the results valid.
To be honest, if you’re going to wallhack with materials, then it’s hardly beyond the realms of possibility that you’ll wallhack in other ways anyway. (pure bypass, non-material wallhack, radar?)
There’s not really a reason to invalidate a result based on assuming that if there was no sv_pure then someone might have been wallhacking. There can always be someone hacking regardless of the circumstances.
Quoted from MEGAMIDDIE
[…]
To be honest, if you’re going to wallhack with materials, then it’s hardly beyond the realms of possibility that you’ll wallhack in other ways anyway. (pure bypass, non-material wallhack, radar?)
There’s not really a reason to invalidate a result based on assuming that if there was no sv_pure then someone might have been wallhacking. There can always be someone hacking regardless of the circumstances.
except bypassing sv pure rule is not vac bannable offense while using proper hacks is
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