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Reviving Capture the Flag?
Created 16th December 2010 @ 20:02
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Quoted from Not here
[…]
im not an admin but 1 reason is the fact most of the players hate ctf…think that is quite a valid point =P
Returning us to the points already discussed, Why was Turbine once very popular? What makes it that people hate a ctf map and what prevents the things people see as downsides to be fixed?
If you say you hate ctf maps please ask yourself why you hate them, and if those reasons can be overcome.
I would love to make a map that is actually something different than the majority of the map pool, not another 5cp map with some quirky CP placement and one or two interesting new flank designs.
Sure this seems to be a good formula for new comp maps but does it have to be all the same?
Last edited by Cycl4mate,
bump
Turbine is/was fun because without engies, and without snipers that map was actually pretty fun. A large room to frag in and then a choke to push into to get the intel .
The attitude of the 6vs6 community towards the mapping is really ignorant. Especially towards ctf maps. Did anyone tried any of the maps in the competitive ctf contest? http://compctf.tf2maps.net/ I dont think so. The reason why ctf isnt played is because 2fort and ctf_well suck so hard. Turbine is a really average and boring map as well, with not enough options to make it interesting. Just take a look at the ctf contest and you see some really good maps there. I really would like to see ctf_overlook in the mappool or some monday madness. Its like a badlands for ctf. Original and interesting on many levels.
Quoted from Waster
The attitude of the 6vs6 community towards the mapping is really ignorant. Especially towards ctf maps. Did anyone tried any of the maps in the competitive ctf contest? http://compctf.tf2maps.net/ I dont think so. The reason why ctf isnt played is because 2fort and ctf_well suck so hard. Turbine is a really average and boring map as well, with not enough options to make it interesting. Just take a look at the ctf contest and you see some really good maps there. I really would like to see ctf_overlook in the mappool or some monday madness. Its like a badlands for ctf. Original and interesting on many levels.
I have been through nearly all the contest maps now, none of them really gave me that “wow” factor but i’m pretty sure at least three of them are seriously viable for fun play in comp if they are optimised. The contest wasn’t held that long ago actually. It seems as if the contest was a bit massive, loads of maps made it hard for one to stand out. Do you reckon it would be possible to create enough public interest by really advertising a single map through its creation and testing stages?
Last edited by Cycl4mate,
updated the OP
Quoted from Wabbeh
Turbine is/was fun because without engies, and without snipers that map was actually pretty fun. A large room to frag in and then a choke to push into to get the intel .
This, the only thing I didn’t like about Turbine is the roof over the choke. It’s really good if you don’t have engies/heavies though and using the bo3 ruleset.
so nobody mentions the vents? stupid shitty retarded just enough room for 1 player vents.
quoting fail
Last edited by Cycl4mate,
Quoted from herpderp
[…]
This, the only thing I didn’t like about Turbine is the roof over the choke. It’s really good if you don’t have engies/heavies though and using the bo3 ruleset.
I can offer you a ctf map with roofless chokes, interested? -.^
*/bribebribe*
Quoted from Arnold
so nobody mentions the vents? stupid shitty retarded just enough room for 1 player vents.
Got to agree.
With you being a renowned mapper, I would very much appreciate it if you left a clear opinion about the original subject. please? ^^
Last edited by Cycl4mate,
When making maps for competitive, try to ape Badlands as much as possible without it actually being Badlands. Gullywash does this brilliantly, and I mean that in a good way.
Bridges http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1085379/cp_coalmine_a1_rotation_exp_fissure0002.jpg
High control points http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1085379/cp_coalmine_a1_rotation_exp_fissure0001.jpg
Are all recommended. Essentially, Badlands does height-based gameplay better than any other map. Having interesting gameplay arenas like the spire, like granary’s middle, etc. are all ways to make a map more competitively friendly.
Quoted from Randdalf
When making maps for competitive, try to ape Badlands as much as possible without it actually being Badlands. Gullywash does this brilliantly, and I mean that in a good way.
Bridges http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1085379/cp_coalmine_a1_rotation_exp_fissure0002.jpg
High control points http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1085379/cp_coalmine_a1_rotation_exp_fissure0001.jpgAre all recommended. Essentially, Badlands does height-based gameplay better than any other map. Having interesting gameplay arenas like the spire, like granary’s middle, etc. are all ways to make a map more competitively friendly.
Sadly, I am not going to add any controll points. As I said I don’t want capping the intelligence to be more complicated than grabbing it and taking it to your base. These general hints however are always helpfull. I have been told to do my homework on what makes maps good and I will try to fit in elements that perform well in ways that they correspond with the map’s purpose.
that is, IF I decide to actually start on this.
Last edited by Cycl4mate,
Problem is the gamemode essentially.
You see it’s basically the same as capping a cp, only a lot less interesting. The actual fight happens and perhaps you will have to pop uber, force the enemy team to pop uber. But apart from that you’ll just have to win the deathmatch since there’s no real incentive to stand on a certain area you can just run around aimlessly killing everybody. when everybody’s dead you can grab intel and run. The whole running back to base with intel is just annoying and i hardly see an enemy team stop the intel from being capped once it’s out of their base. You could easily replace the intel with a cp and it’ll be more exciting. No running back with it, you can stop the cap you the fights will be more dynamic etc.
On top of that ctf was fun when it revolves around fast movement which required a lot of practice and skill in tfc. But in tf2 you can’t really use a technique to move around quicker. You’ll basically always have to send a scout to cap other classes can’t really do it as effectively. While capping a cp can be done by any class.
That’s how i feel about ctf.
Quoted from Arnold
Problem is the gamemode essentially.
You see it’s basically the same as capping a cp, only a lot less interesting. The actual fight happens and perhaps you will have to pop uber, force the enemy team to pop uber. But apart from that you’ll just have to win the deathmatch since there’s no real incentive to stand on a certain area you can just run around aimlessly killing everybody. when everybody’s dead you can grab intel and run. The whole running back to base with intel is just annoying and i hardly see an enemy team stop the intel from being capped once it’s out of their base. You could easily replace the intel with a cp and it’ll be more exciting. No running back with it, you can stop the cap you the fights will be more dynamic etc.
On top of that ctf was fun when it revolves around fast movement which required a lot of practice and skill in tfc. But in tf2 you can’t really use a technique to move around quicker. You’ll basically always have to send a scout to cap other classes can’t really do it as effectively. While capping a cp can be done by any class.
That’s how i feel about ctf.
Thanks a lot for this, this is the first post that clearly states the deeper problems in ctf for tf2.
Now when it comes to my idea for the map there are a lot of “but wait” elements in there.
The most fundamental flaw in ctf, in my opinion, is the part where you can do nothing about escaped intell runners and the fact running back and forth the map to score for your team is annoying.
The map I plan to make has something against this problem. The spawn will be located in such a way that spawning players can reach middle fast and fairly safe while the enemy is attacking your intelligence. this would at least allow effective intercepting. About travel time, and it might sound silly, there will be frequent trains running along the length of the map which any class can use to travel a lot faster for a bit. (not to mention it would be roughly the same time of a turbine cap without any such help which is tedious but not shockingly long)
About not having any goals but fragging between the briefcases is something I want to solve by creating some sort of an “advantage route” you can fight for in order to gain map controll.
In conclusion so far: I am still in doubt whether to start this but I would love to see how the problems that have been called so far might be overcome. I don’t feel like starting a new cp map as much simply because I want to make something different from the majority even if this means I have to use a format that is (slightly?) inferior to cp.
My question right now is, Is it worth the hours of work to make an alpha for a map like this just to see if the idea holds enough potential?
Last edited by Cycl4mate,
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