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Soldier Weps, Overpowered or not?
Created 18th December 2009 @ 05:13
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LOL! Airshot or predicted shot with the standard RL only a lucky shot?! omg. Whats next? This? That’ll be AWESOME! :D
Last edited by DeNeusbeer,
jiziz! Even if valve released perfect weapons for the soldier and the demo, you guys still would have find something to bitch about. Seriously, why remove the mini-crit-air? If you are able to hit someone with TDH, in-air, which requires some AIMING as well, then why bitch about it. These weapons were made for a reason in the first place. Valve got shit-tired of Fragga’s whining, so they made some new weapons. And btw, stop talking about balance, and” scouts has it even tougher after update”. A good player adapt’s! So balanced or not, predz is still a one-man-team as scout!
Last edited by ZeyOrk,
bunfi, do not submit that to valve – they might go for it. It looks like too much fun! :)
I don’t find the DH overpowered in any way (that’s coming from a demoman who has about 50hours as a soldier and hates the class) IF we consider that “jump-minicrit-instagib” thing a bug. However, it’s just an IMO and I may change my mind after some officials.
It’s really humorous to read posts like
You F-ING DEMOMAN CUNTS, YOU ARE JEALOUS OF MY NEW WEAPONS! JEALOUS I SAY!!1!
that come from soldier players.
That’s not the exact quoting, but the point remains (ohai exm).
Last edited by ups,
1. Remove the crit. I don’t see the sense in making airshots EASIER and then rewarding someone for hitting an EASIER shot.
2. Increase the splash damage (but not as big as the normal launcher)
3. Lower the damage to counter the above ^ and also because i think it’s unfair to one shot the majority of the classes in game.
4. Perhaps lower the reload time? Or this in conjunction with some of the above? Like keep the splash the same but make it reload faster? You may have to increase ammo capacity if you do this.
I agree with this almost completly.Maybe only remove the crit and lower the damage a bit.
I can’t believe this. Proposed ‘fixes’:
– greater radius
– less damage
Why not just remove the weapon entirely if all you’re making it is a Rocket Launcher with faster rockets, i.e. A STRAIGHT DAMN UPGRADE.
bunfi, do not submit that to valve – they might go for it. It looks just too much fun! :)
why not? I had been listening same shit from the novice players in the Hungarian comm. portal: “The Valve wasn’t made this game for comeptitive players!” “Stop whineing and shut up, this is FUN for me!” “The update weapons are well balanced, I can kill everybody with them!” ets. etc. :D :D
Last edited by bunfi,
bunfi, do not submit that to valve – they might go for it. It looks just too much fun! :)
I don’t find the DH overpowered in any way (that’s coming from a demoman who has about 50hours as soldier and hates the class) IF we consider that “jump-minicrit-instagib” thing a bug. However, it’s just an IMO and I may change my mind after some officials.
It’s really humorous to read posts like
You F-ING DEMOMAN CUNTS, YOU ARE JEALOUS OF MY NEW WEAPONS! JEALOUS I SAY!!1!
that come from soldier players.
That’s not the exact quoting, but the point remains (ohai exm).
go play 6v6 with SR then!!! (ps love you)
I would really like to know what Moose thinks about TDH, since it was his idea.
He is probably the best person to ask Valve for changes, only if he agrees to them of course.
So, dear Moose?
We already had this discussion about pipe damage, IMO it’s the same difficulty to hit a scout with TDH with soldier as hitting a pipe with demo. NO INSTAGIB, k thx.
Well, to be fair. Nades are a little bit slower. This increases the chance of the scout jumping into it’s path. Difference ain’t much. But I agree on removing the ability to instagib.
While playing I noticed you really need to change the way you aim compared to the rocket launcher. It’s can be compared to grenade launcher, but slightly faster with damage fall-ff and no rollers. It’s just a different way of playing soldier, and basicly a side grade. High-risk high-reward.
I agree, although I think we will see baddies using it, because similar to the FAN, if you’re a very poor player this gives you a slight buff, certainly at CQC. Once the mini-crits are fixed I think even baddies will stop using it. Trouble is atm, some guy gets mini-critted and whines its OP, but overall, over the 30 minutes of the game, the DH has a negative impact on a team because soldiers are fighting single targets rather than dealing damage to multiple targets etc
It is a weapon favoring a different style of soldier play. It doesn’t have the advantage close range, because both weapons do very high damage in such scenario’s. But if you miss with the new RJ the old RJ still offered splash in certain situations.
Don’t feed the trolls, ppl. ^
Whilst i agree with evil, the rocket moves so fast that at close range it can be considered hitscan.. it’s like arguing that a laser pen travels at the speed of light therefore is a projectile so you need to aim it well when you point it at a wall.
Personally, i think this gun needs a few adjustments to make it a decent sidegrade – cos i think it’s a less usefull weapon than the normal RL. This is my opinion only:
1. Remove the crit. I don’t see the sense in making airshots EASIER and then rewarding someone for hitting an EASIER shot.
2. Increase the splash damage (but not as big as the normal launcher)
3. Lower the damage to counter the above ^ and also because i think it’s unfair to one shot the majority of the classes in game.
4. Perhaps lower the reload time? Or this in conjunction with some of the above? Like keep the splash the same but make it reload faster? You may have to increase ammo capacity if you do this.
Agree on 1 till 3. But 4 wouldn’t be needed. Only if you give it 5 or 6 rockets. Lots of times a soldier quickly loads his 5th rocket to finish off a target.
You’re wrong, there’s no luck in projectiles, you fire a rocket based on prediction. If I fire a shot based on his current movement direction and hit, that’s not luck. If a player moves after I’ve fired and the rocket missed, that doesn’t mean my shot was badly predicted and that I just fire random lucky shots, it means he simply dodged – the downside of a slow projectile based weapon.
While this is true, it doesn’t make the new weapon less skillful. Because you need better prediction to get shots where the normal RL would still deal splash. (What Arnold said basically)
Last edited by Koeitje,
I can’t believe this. Proposed ‘fixes’:
– greater radius
– less damageWhy not just remove the weapon entirely if all you’re making it is a Rocket Launcher with faster rockets, i.e. A STRAIGHT DAMN UPGRADE.
Touche. Why not go all the way? Would be interesting to see a rocket launcher with absolutely no damage radius whatsoever, perhaps even faster rockets. +100% projectile speed, -100% explosion radius. o_O
You got a shotgun. Use it.
I don’t recall having asked for advice.
I thought I give you advice anyway. :)
I can’t believe this. Proposed ‘fixes’:
– greater radius
– less damageWhy not just remove the weapon entirely if all you’re making it is a Rocket Launcher with faster rockets, i.e. A STRAIGHT DAMN UPGRADE.
Touche. Why not go all the way? Would be interesting to see a rocket launcher with absolutely no damage radius whatsoever, perhaps even faster rockets. +100% projectile speed, -100% explosion radius. o_O
We already have that, its called a Sniper Rifle.
I can’t believe this. Proposed ‘fixes’:
– greater radius
– less damageWhy not just remove the weapon entirely if all you’re making it is a Rocket Launcher with faster rockets, i.e. A STRAIGHT DAMN UPGRADE.
Touche. Why not go all the way? Would be interesting to see a rocket launcher with absolutely no damage radius whatsoever, perhaps even faster rockets. +100% projectile speed, -100% explosion radius. o_O
We already have that, its called a Sniper Rifle.
More like huntsman :p
Haha gotta love the people who are saying TDH is imba and/or doesn’t require skill but in the same post suggesting that it should be updated to have a higher splash radius (making it more like the original RL). Increasing the splash radius on this weapon even marginally will make it FAR more effective and more likely to be imbalanced and a direct upgrade to the normal RL rather than a sidegrade. The only weakness of TDH compared to normal RL is ofc the splash radius so I have no clue why people seem to think increasing splash radius is a good idea.
About the debate of prediction aim requiring more skill and less luck than hitscan aim:
Prediction aim is not an absolute and more based on what you could call “luck” than hitscan aim. Shooting prediction rockets/pipes at an opponent is all about perception and guesswork. It inherently relies on the opponent doing what you THINK he MOST LIKELY will do (you can’t say for definate or else it wouldnt be prediction would it?). Hitscan aim on the otherhand is all about CONSISTENT and ACCURATE tracking of the opponent. It’s all about pure EXECUTION.
To suggest that hitscan aim doesn’t also require prediction would be absolutely naive, of course it does. You can’t say that hitting a consistent 40% Lightning gun in Quake for example is based only on luck and technique. Maintaining an accurate hitscan aim (i.e. hitting a 40% lg in Quake) is a better measure of consistent prediction skill and execution than a RL fight where the outcome is often unpredictable and dependent on one player hitting one or two great rockets to gain a clear advantage.
Similarly with the TDH there is more pressure on accurate execution than with the normal RL in any situation where the TDH soldier is put under risk. You can’t rely on splash damage and juggling from rockets that are not direct hits so if you do miss you are screwed.
The fact that the weapon works in a way that you either do LOTS of damage or almost NO DAMAGE makes accurate execution more important. You can’t rely on 2 or 3 mediocre rockets that do some splash damage to the opponent forcing him to retreat or allowing you to finish him off. Instead you have to hit or it’s over.
Fragga’s point about luck I think is based on situations where the TDH soldier isn’t pressured or in danger and can simply spam at range until he gets a “lucky” hit or two. The same luck factor basically applies to the normal RL, the difference being that with the TDH the lucky hits will do more damage and consequently are more likely to kill an opponent at range. I see no problem with this.
Last edited by KOVACS,
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