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They are not banning people for cheating in another game. They ban people if they have a VAC source ban. And since there is no way to prove it was tf2 or css they should just ban right away.

Are you familiar with concept known as “Innocent until proven guilty”?

Just to use Joske as an example again, he stands to be banned under this rule despite the fact that literally nobody suspects him of hacking in the context of Competitive TF2. Generally if a rule causes you to ban people you don’t actually think are hackers, that’s a sign of a flawed system.

And don’t try to play it off as a stand against hacking in general, because if it was the principle that mattered to you it wouldn’t apply just to games on the Source engine.

…and you’re punishing people for a rule that didn’t exist at the time of the offense…

…glad I play in NA.

They are not banning people for cheating in another game. They ban people if they have a VAC source ban. And since there is no way to prove it was tf2 or css they should just ban right away.

Are you familiar with concept known as “Innocent until proven guilty”?

Just to use Joske as an example again, he stands to be banned under this rule despite the fact that literally nobody suspects him of hacking in the context of Competitive TF2. Generally if a rule causes you to ban people you don’t actually think are hackers, that’s a sign of a flawed system.

And don’t try to play it off as a stand against hacking in general, because if it was the principle that mattered to you it wouldn’t apply just to games on the Source engine.

…and you’re punishing people for a rule that didn’t exist at the time of the offense…

…glad I play in NA.

how many haxxersz have been found in the NA scene so far then?

They have already been proven guilty, VAC doesn’t ban for nothing, VAC bans when people hacked. It’s like using controversial chemicals in food, chemicals some experts say are harmful (as in the players cheated in tf2) and others say they aren’t (they cheated in css). Nothing has been proven. What would you prefer? Using those chemicals or not using them? I can’t help it some people are to stupid to hack. I’m against hacking in any context, pub or competitive. What gives you the right to ruin the fun for gamers that only play on publics? Allowing VAC banned players back in the league opens the door for people who didn’t have the willpower to fight the temptation to cheat. They already failed to realize cheating might have consequences for them.

If you’re against cheating in any form then I respect your opinion. However, the rules as they are have drawn a rather arbitrary distinction between what are essentially the same type of cheaters.

If you’re going to punish people for being cheaters on principle, then punish all of them; otherwise you don’t have a principle to punish them for. I’m not actually endorsing that position, but that’s the stance you need to take to justifiably argue from the perspective of “Cheaters are Cheaters”, and it’s not how the rules currently work.

In NA I think we’ve only had like one or two that were ever proven (although one of them did make like 5 accounts). Our scene is a lot smaller than yours, though.

+1

People who got VAC banned for a source game should be perm-banned. Of course people could have been banned in CSS while playing TF2 competitively , but since there is no way to check such a thing they should be perm-banned.

I don’t agree with hacking or the reasons why people would go to such measures, even if it is only to grief people on publics and not use it for a competitive advantage. However I also don’t agree with extremes like this. If someone hacked in CSS 1 time on a public and they’re playing TF2 completely legitly, who cares? If people are so concerned with “it might have been TF2 hacks, they might be cheating!” just get the AC admins to check previous or recent demos to verify whether they are or not.

Correct me if I’m wrong but aren’t warservers supposed to be VAC secured?
If that’s correct, it seems perfectly normal to ban VAC banned players, since they can’t join those servers anyway.

you might do not care but the leagues actually do. because if they let you pass with the argument “it might just f%ckin’ CS:S!” then they would passively support cheaters no? there’s no serious league that would handle it like that. let alone multigaming platforms.. it’s some kind of respect for each other and their work.

Funny you say that, because going by these rules the argument “It’s just CS 1.6” would work fine. You could even hack in competitive CS with no penalty, but god help you if you hacked in a CS:S pub at any point.

If you’re going to take an moral stand against hackers, it shouldn’t matter what engine they sinned on. Hell, you should even be investigating people for hacking on games outside of Steam. Until the rules actually work something like this, you can’t really make the “we hate hackers” argument.

Voyager I, it’s pretty easy. if anyone hacked on 1.6 then they usually got global banned of the whole HL engine (incl dod and tfc) as soon as someone actually found out their account got vac’d. there’s no chance an admin would ever trust you that you actually only hacked in this game. everyone would come up with this argument no? Why even starting this shit and acting like a ‘tard on cs pubs anyway? If anyone is to blame then the one who just was stupid enough to get caught with his competitive account even he knew about the risks. it’s still the same if you hack on the Source engine. u’ll get banned from all Source games. the league is just following Valve on this and it always has been like that in several leagues in the past.

the reason why I wouldn’t take over HLengine bans as well is that most likely the players already suffered their ban. fair enough they still can’t even connect to secured HLengine server, are still marked and had to move on to another game. probably learned their lesson by now.