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I have never felt frustrated or angry or whatever when getting killed by the rocket launcher, or stickies, or nades, or anything.
I don’t because I feel as if I’ve either been outskilled, or did something stupid, taken a risk, etc.
People with the FaN don’t outskill you but still kill you.
Therefor a comparison is pointless.

Yes, I am a scout, no, I don’t use the FaN, and yes, I have been in 1v1 situations vs players that used it.

And YES, I want the FaN to be allowed. Why doesnt it make sense to you? Just because I dont share your opinion?

Ofc the weapon is annoying and sometimes I would like to smash the people’s heads in for using it against me – but so is the rocket launcher or sticky launcher.

I also wanted it to be banned before but reading the article I linked to changed my opinion and my view on videogames fundamentally. Using the FaN is a valid tactic, even though or maybe even because it is so powerful. There’s no need to ban it though because it is not game breaking at all. Just because noone hasnt found a counter yet doesnt mean there is non.

A ban would be justified if using the FaN infinitely means you win the game, no matter what else you do right or wrong. This is certainly not the case.

Just my .02$

You clearly don’t understand what the article is about.

The article illustrates that it’s perfectly alright to use FAN at this moment, and that it’s not ‘lame’ or anything else, which is 100% correct. FAN is allowed, and everything that’s allowed is a valid tactic and people who discard their losses as ‘well, it’s because he does X and Y’ are scrubs. The article means as long as FAN’s allowed, it should be considered a perfectly viable tactic.

However, this is a debate of BALANCE and if it adds something positive to the game, and as such whether it should be removed or not, not if it’s a valid or lame tactic, so you’ve misinterpreted the article itself.

And theoretically, in a 1v1, the FAN user will win. Two scouts of perfect ability facing off, one with FAN, the other with scattergun. If they both hit each other at the exact same time, the FAN user will be able to fire another shot faster than the scattergun scout, and finish him instantly in addition. Now, in most cases this happens without the FAN scout being of perfect skill due to the ease of hitting a knocked target, and thus reducing the skill ceiling and therefore not being an addition for the better, as it provides the same reward but with a lower requirement of skill.

In a 1v1 scout duel of scatter vs. FAN, the FAN scout has to hit the scattergun scout ONCE in order to win. If the FAN scout hits, he will win a great majority of the time due to the ease of hitting the knocked target. Scattergun scouts will have to hit a meatshot on a moving target for the same effect, which requires more skill to pull off.

Now, this is not meant to be evidence or a sound argument as it’s purely anecdotal, but a lot of times when I die to FAN scouts it’s not their first shot that deals any significant damage, but it’s the second, and I know a lot of scouts who can do this with the FAN are not able to meatshot nearly as consistently with the scattergun. Please provide a rebuttal to what I’ve said, as this is my objections to its balance, instead of providing a very general “it is not gamebreaking” argument that doesn’t address any of my points.

I have never felt frustrated or angry or whatever when getting killed by the rocket launcher, or stickies, or nades, or anything.
I don’t because I feel as if I’ve either been outskilled, or did something stupid, taken a risk, etc.
People with the FaN don’t outskill you but still kill you.
Therefor a comparison is pointless.

That wasnt even my point, but whatever.

Why do you feel people using the FaN are ALWAYS lesser skilled than you? They have to aim too, it’s not as if the FaN comes with an built-in aimbot.

I assume your problem is they only have to hit with the first shot to get a “free” 2nd shot – but WHAT if they miss their first shot? Then you’re getting the advantage in the very second he misses his first shot – because he cant kill you anymore without reloading in between (unless he uses the pistol which is quite an unreliable source of damage vs a scout in close range). You have more than enough time to get enough shots into him to kill him, and if you fail doing so – well, he probably would’ve killed you with the normal scattergun anyway then.

The argument ‘what if they miss their first shot’ is VERY weak as it’s attributed to a human error rather than the balance of the weapon itself. You do not necessarily have such a large advantage, but you’re more on an equal playing field as he then has to meatshot you while you’re moving instead of flying in a predictive arc.

Saying if you fail to kill him during the reload time (which is 2 shots with the scattergun), he would probably kill you with the regular scattergun is also highly presumptive, as after the reload he still only has to hit once to finish off.

You’re saying it’s balanced because the FAN scout could miss his first shot, and the scattergun scout would have to 2-shot the FAN scout, if he doesn’t, the FAN scout reloads and kills him then, it demonstrates the FAN scout is obviously better and would have killed him anyways?

I have never felt frustrated or angry or whatever when getting killed by the rocket launcher, or stickies, or nades, or anything.
I don’t because I feel as if I’ve either been outskilled, or did something stupid, taken a risk, etc.
People with the FaN don’t outskill you but still kill you.
Therefor a comparison is pointless.

If you think FAN is the easy weapon, use it yourself. Then you can get free kills and dominate the games you play because you outskill everyone who plays with the FAN.

Actually we played a game earlier with scatter + fan on my team (me + drjustice scouts, I with scatter) and scatter + scatter (berserker + pukz) on the other team. Berserker was in the dual scatter team. As soon as he switched to fan his team started doing better.

Berserker:

You’re right, I guess. I misinterpreted it – somehow. Its not “Thing X is allowed because it is a valid tactic” but the other way around. Still, I dont see how that makes the ban of the FaN justified.

Of course, the usage of the FaN in comparison to the Scattergun will you put you at an advantage in a 1v1 IF you hit with the first shot – but what if not? The Scattergun-Scout will be at an advantage now, without a doubt.

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The argument ‘what if they miss their first shot’ is VERY weak as it’s attributed to a human error rather than the balance of the weapon itself. You do not necessarily have such a large advantage, but you’re more on an equal playing field as he then has to meatshot you while you’re moving instead of flying in a predictive arc.

Your argument is based on the same principles (FaN will always win IF he hits with the first shot), since it requires the human to have perfect aim to ALWAYS win.

Saying if you fail to kill him during the reload time (which is 2 shots with the scattergun), he would probably kill you with the regular scattergun is also highly presumptive, as after the reload he still only has to hit once to finish off.

It probably came out wrong. Should’ve been “If you cant kill a scout that is practically totally defenseless during the time he reloads which takes quite some time, then you probably deserve to die”.

You’re saying it’s balanced because the FAN scout could miss his first shot, and the scattergun scout would have to 2-shot the FAN scout, if he doesn’t, the FAN scout reloads and kills him then, it demonstrates the FAN scout is obviously better and would have killed him anyways?

During the time he shoots his clip empty, I get out 1 shot. During the time he reloads, I get out another 3 shots. When the other scout finally can shoot again, I get out my 5th shot – more than enough imo.

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Actually we played a game earlier with scatter + fan on my team (me + drjustice scouts, I with scatter) and scatter + scatter (berserker + pukz) on the other team. Berserker was in the dual scatter team. As soon as he switched to fan his team started doing better.

Just an example:

If person x plays Street Fighter 4, chooses Sagat (who is the top tier character in that game) and wins 30% of his matches, then chooses Ryu (who is second in the tier listing) and wins 50% of his matches – does that mean Ryu is a better Character than Sagat?

I assume your problem is they only have to hit with the first shot to get a “free” 2nd shot – but WHAT if they miss their first shot?

why should you assume that? isnt competitive play all about maximizing ur skill? so it makes more sense if we assume that a FAN scout has maximum skill and a Scatter scout has maximum skill. the FAN scout will very likely win in every 1on1 situation (both with max hp ocf).

Skill =! Aim

just ban it already!?!!
(its tested enough to clearly see that its OP)

Kritz never had a 100 page thread and I cant remember that there was a lot of whine after ppl played 2 weeks against/with kritz either.

Yet I see your problem, still lots of ppl disagree with the fan being OP so whatever you do about half of the community will disagree with your decision.

Btw despite a lot of guys in here are saying you need no skill for the fan, I disagree with that.
You need good aiming to be effective with fan but if you put the fan into the right hands its just utterly ridiculous what you can do with it.
However ppl in the lower divisions (sorry I really dont wanna sound elitist but thats just the case here imho) never played against scouts who are able to unleash the power of this gun, thus they argue against a ban.

I can just hope that etf2l will do the right thing.