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Quoted from Skyride

A public vote doesn’t work because the majority of players have such a woefully bad understanding of the game that their opinion isn’t valuable. A “panel” wouldn’t work simply because – well – how do you decide who is on that panel? The only other alternative is to leave it to the leagues to make up their own rules which from 2008-2010 did incredible damage to our scene since it’s a little difficult to reach a consensus of 5000+ people.

On one side there’s Arx pointing out that top players should be playing how the viewers want them to(in a successful esport), and on the other there’s you.

Quoted from Skyride

[…]

Imagine if they changed the rules in Golf, or football, or tennis every 2 months? Do you think that would be good for the sport? If you didn’t notice a huge section of my post was actually advocating a few particular unlocks.

How can you even say that? Do you even know how old those sports are, and how much it took them to reach a final ruleset? How many changes they suffered along the way until they evolved into today’s finished product that you see on TV and literally anywhere?

Also, not enjoying this game anymore? Where’s your brain at? I don’t think people who aren’t enjoying the game anymore would try to keep it alive. On the contraire, these people care for the game too much to see it die out because a bunch of asshats who call themselves the best just don’t care anymore.

Quoted from Ghostface

[…]
who call themselves the best

what

Quoted from MoneyGrabber

[…]

How the Hell does allowing some more unlocks that create new ways of playing old and new maps mean that you’re just doing what “pubbers want [you to do]” and that you might as well play a cup “without class limits […], 2 spies, a sniper and 3 engineers”? Could you possibly sound any more elitist?

Because both are new ways of playing old and new maps? Because both are retarded? I don’t know if you have ever played on a public server (looking at your join date I’d say you have), but if I go on there about 90% of the players are indistinguishable of the bots Valve has put in this game. So why on earth should we play like pubbers play? They hardly understand the basics of the game, let alone the impact of unlocks. Besides, who said that viewers want to see unlocks? I’d like to see some proof of that. Anyway, who the hell are you?

And to answer your last question: yes I could.

fucking highlander players are a disease

Lets just have a match decide it. Get 6 vanilla supporters and 6 unlock supporters and play 4 maps. 2 maps using an unlock set of the supporters choosing, 2 maps vanilla + medlocks. Winner determines S13 rules.

Anyone with half a brain can see just how out of touch Skyride is with the scene. Our north american brethren at the top of their respective scene clearly aren’t bored of the game which can only be attributed to unlocks, and look how booming their scene is compared to our pitiful numbers. Something needs to change and I think Arx is the only one talking any sense: we need to broaden our spectator appeal by reaching out to the public community. How much longer can we go justifying playing a game for mousemats?

There is one clear option: a totally revamped, fresh ruleset. While this is just a prototype, I feel the merits of it are hard to argue against.

– All unlocks allowed.
– Classes and loadouts are locked at the start of each round.
– If you do not get at least 3 kills with Soda Popper mini-crits, you lose the game.
– If you do not get at least 1 long-range Sandman stun, you lose the game.
– If you do not get at least 2 The Direct Hit airshots, you lose the game.
– If you do not gain at least 77 life from Black Box hits, you lose the game.
– If you do not get at least 2 kills with Buff Banner minicrits, you lose the game.
– If you do not get at least 1 Market Gardener crit kill, you lose the game.
– If you do not get at least 1 Degreaser/Axtinguisher airblast combo, you lose the game.
– If you do not get at least 1 long range Flaregun crit kill, you lose the game.
– If you do not rocketjump with an enemy’s rocket using the pyro’s airblast, you lose the game.
– If you do not get at least 1 scout kill at long range with the Loch ‘n’ Load, you lose the game.
– If you do not disarm an enemy’s stickytrap with the Scottish Resistence, you lose the game.
– If you do not get at least 1 medic pick with a stickyjumping Ullapool Caber bomb, you lose the game.
– If you do not get at least 2 kills during the duration of Buffalo Steak Sandvich using the Warrior’s Spirit, you lose the game.
– If you do not reduce an enemy medic from full uber to less than full uber with the Pomson 6000 and then have your team kill him before he gets uber again, you lose the game.
– If you do not get at least 1 incredibly long-ranged kill AND/OR airshot with the Wrangler, you lose the game.
– If you do not get at least 1 Gunslinger melee crit kill, you lose the game.
– If you do not get at least 1 kill with the Crusader’s Crossbow, you lose the game.
– If you do not perform at least 1 Quick-fix rocket/stickyjump, you lose the game.
– If you do not heal at least 50 damage using the Amputator’s taunt, you lose the game.
– If you do not get at least 1 huntsman headshot, you lose the game.
– If you do not get at least 1 Jarate/Bushwacka combo, you lose the game.
– If you run spy, you lose the game.
– If you get more rounds than the opposing team, you win the game, unless you lost the game, in which case you lose the game.
– If both teams lose the game, the captain of both teams must go soldier and duel at the middle cap point with Half-Zatoichi’s while somebody, either ingame or on stream, must play http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rkcow41HtI8&feature=related. If someone steps out of the capture zone, the other team wins the game. If the music ends before a kill has been made, the game ends in a draw (yielding 0 points for both teams) and both teams incur a penalty point.

As you can see, such a ruleset provides competitive tf2 with an opportunity to unite the pub and competitive communities while promoting a varied skillset, new entertaining strategies and experimentation. It also has the benefit for newer players of having a smaller number of rules to remember than our current unlock ruleset as well as being incredibly spectator friendly.

If you disagree with this post: you are the sole reason for tf2’s slow demise.

Viva la TF2.

It seems like I’m going to have to break these posts into smaller ones.

Quoted from Koeitje

[…]Because both are new ways of playing old and new maps? Because both are retarded?

This just doesn’t make any sense. I have no idea of what you’re referring to when using both.

“One and the other; relating to or being two in conjunction”
taken from http://www.thefreedictionary.com/both

Quoted from Koeitje

[…]I don’t know if you have ever played on a public server (looking at your join date I’d say you have)[…]

First, I don’t know of any people that have played/play competitive TF2 without ever having played on a public server. Second, I’m not sure of how my join date has anything to do with whether I have or haven’t played on public servers, which leads me to believe that this is some kind of pseudo-insult. Are you trying to discredit what I’m saying because I joined some two or three days ago? Is that it? Oh boy, I’m sure that the reasonable people who might stumble upon my post are going to think “Gee, ths Koeitje person sure does have a point. Look at that other guy, he just joined a few days ago! What does he know? Probably nothing!” when they read your pseudo-insult.

Quoted from Koeitje

[…] but if I go on there about 90% of the players are indistinguishable of the bots Valve has put in this game. So why on earth should we play like pubbers play? They hardly understand the basics of the game, let alone the impact of unlocks.

Either:
a) You are playing with actual bots;
b) You are greatly exaggerating to make public servers sound worse than they are;
c) You’ve got some sort of eye/brain problem which distorts how you see things.

Personally, I’m betting on b), and you know why? Because I’ve seldom seen players in pubs walking into walls continuously unable to just turn around and keep going on their merry little way. I’ve seldom seen players in pubs start taunting after you look at them for a few seconds, no matter what they’re doing (in the middle of running away, for example). I’ve seldom seen pub players play as if they were aimbotting. But then again, I mostly frequent decent pubs where people aren’t playing the game for the second or third time and I don’t make grossly false exaggerations for the sake of sounding right.

Quoted from Koeitje

[…]They hardly understand the basics of the game, let alone the impact of unlocks.

Again, unless people are playing for the first few times, that’s not true. Granted that there are very simple mechanics (airblasting comes to mind) that most new people don’t know about, but they know about most of them. Just because someone plays in a pub doesn’t mean they’re retarded and unable of comprehending that the WASD keys allow you to move relatively to your cursor and that pressing the left mouse buttons usually causes you to attack. The impact of unlocks? Well, sure, most pub players don’t understand the impact of unlocks. Fortunately for us, the people defending unlocks in this very forum mostly play/have played 6v6 too, or at least Highlander and are not what you’re calling pubbers.

Quoted from Koeitje

[…]Besides, who said that viewers want to see unlocks? I’d like to see some proof of that.

Well, I don’t know, but it sure WASN’T ME, so I don’t see how this is RELEVANT to THIS argumment.

Quoted from Koeitje

[…]Anyway, who the hell are you?

I’m MoneyGrabber. Most people just call me Money. Actually, how could you see my join date earlier without seeing my name? You had to click it. Maybe when I was replying to your comparision of pub players to bots I shouldn’t have gone with option b). Maybe I should have gone with option c).

Quoted from Koeitje

[…]And to answer your last question: yes I could.

No, no you couldn’t.

Quoted from Gubbins

Everyone I recognise: We’ve had this argument and seen the outcome of both choices, it’s obvious to see which is best.

Everyone you recognise has seen the outcome of both choices? How?

Quoted from Gubbins

Everyone else: You don’t know shit, you’re just being elitist and that’s why you won’t consider it. We know best but you won’t listen.

“you’re just being elitist and that’s why you won’t consider it.”
I don’t know best, and I’m not saying that everyone you recognise doesn’t know shit, but so far, most of the people defending vanilla + CC/Blut/Kritz/Ubersaw simply won’t consider things because they’re being elitist: “We know what is best for everyone, everyone whoi has a different opinion is wrong!”

So to sum up:

Some people: Hey, guys, maybe we should allow some more unlocks, it could create new strategies without causing any unbalance! It would be fun!

Other people: WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU RETARDED UNLOCKS ARE SHIT ONLY VANILLA IS TRUE TF2 YOU’RE A SCRUB AND YOU SUCK SO MUCH OH MY GOD WHY WOULD YOU WANT UNLOCKS SHUT UP YOU’RE NOT EVEN PREM ONLY PREM PLAYER’S OPINIONS MATTER, AND DON’T YOU DARE CALL ME ELITIST BECAUSE I’M NOT BEING ELITIST YOU SCUMBAG. COME BACK WHEN YOUR OPINIONS MATTERS.

PS: YOU HAVE NO GOOD HATS ROFLMAO XDDDDDDDDDDDDDD