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I think that there are certain unlocks that could be put to use to create a more interesting way of playing, but if anything, the rules we use also makes the game more stale.

I’ve played this game for quite some time, and as it is one of my first competitive shooters, I have never really been able to become good at the execution part of tactics and discipline and so on, but I have played the game long enough to have seen both cinnamon and vanilla, and as long as we keep timelimit 30, vanilla will remain the ruleset I have experienced more competitiveness and skill with.

too lazy to quote, but Phrozen said this: Your narrow-mindedness is difficult for me to even comprehend. Your unwillingness to accept that maybe other people have viewpoints and opinions is head-mashingly ignorant. If unlocks are so bad then the top teams are going to play vanilla anyway and not use them, therefore people joining have the option to use them before learning that the top teams play vanilla for a reason. More tactics is more diversity and complexity to a community that is quickly running out of fresh things which is the reason for many people calling tf2 “dead”. Sit down son.

The unlocks are not BAD they are TOO GOOD and TOO EASY to use compared to the original weapons. sure, prem could do another pact and play vanilla. but it would benefit those who want to win to use certain unlocks.
I’m sure that having an unlocks panel is a great idea, however I think a panel should be chosen that will determine whether or not an unlock is a sidegrade, and or brings something good to the game.

Everyone has to admit that it would be very fun if we could win easily. Unlocks give that. Valve initially tried to fix problems with the classes. Medic needs more survivability: blutsauger(regen fixed this later but blabla)
sniper needs to be able to fight from a closer range: huntsman
pyro needs to be able to counter its biggest problem, the soldier: airblast ability.

If you ask me, they were making specialist classes into more generalist classes.
pyro was supposed to be an ambush class, weak when facing an enemy head on, with the normal weapons that is still kind of true. yes we have to live with the airblast but the shotgun and flamethrower are short-range weps. the pyro needs to close in silently. because he can’t burn you, airblast you, and then axtinguish you in mere seconds.

sniper is also weak in 1on1 combat and needs either support or distance from his enemies. but at a distance he is super lethal.

soldier has a lot of mobility, but for that mobility he has to pay in health.

scout is weak and mobile, to survive he needs to either be sneaky, good at dodging or good at aiming. notice the word GOOD.

medic is the backbone of a team in tf2, he can turn a pub around and without him a 6s team is lost. He can’t defend himself too easily but with a supportive team he’ll stay alive: he offers health and invincibility for protection.

cba to do more of these. but there are unlocks that remove these initial rules, and weaknesses of classes. and make them stronger in several areas.

sorry for the wall and incoherent shit but I needed to say something….

Quoted from aaaaa

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Keep on digging that whole mate, you’re total lack of gamesense is showering. Div 7 superstars like you are a diamond dozen in this doggy dog world.

edit- because you probably will miss the point again, you misunderstand this whole ‘most of 6v6 players don’t understand the game’ – there’s a lot more to it than rollouts. When you’ve played a few season and actually got out of div 9 you will find that your opinion (and knowledge of the game) changes immensely

Please tell me what is so hard to understand in 6v6 that only div 1 players are able to understand. Tell me what mechanics of the game are so secret that no div 6 player has ever heard of them.

Quoted from Tornf4lk

The unlocks are not BAD they are TOO GOOD and TOO EASY to use compared to the original weapons. sure, prem could do another pact and play vanilla. but it would benefit those who want to win to use certain unlocks.
I’m sure that having an unlocks panel is a great idea, however I think a panel should be chosen that will determine whether or not an unlock is a sidegrade, and or brings something good to the game.

I only have two things to say: First, that mostly only unlocks that can be considered sidegrades should be allowed, since they don’t make the game any easier, they just offer new ways to play it (not all unlocks make the game easier to play, really. But those are not the ones I’m defending). Second, that there is a straight upgrade allowed in the current season: The Ubersaw. I think that in terms of melee, a few straight upgrades could be allowed. Give people a reason to use their melee.

Other than that, I agree with what you said.

Quoted from aaaaa

You read, it not ‘heard’ it lol. I won’t bother reading anything else in your post because you once made a frag vid with lobby kills so that pretty much sums you up in terms of skill and valid opinions xD

Tell me more about how you lost div6.

Quoted from MoneyGrabber

[…]

I only have two things to say: First, that mostly only unlocks that can be considered sidegrades should be allowed, since they don’t make the game any easier, they just offer new ways to play it (not all unlocks make the game easier to play, really. But those are not the ones I’m defending). Second, that there is a straight upgrade allowed in the current season: The Ubersaw. I think that in terms of melee, a few straight upgrades could be allowed. Give people a reason to use their melee.

Other than that, I agree with what you said.

Oh I would want to read why would certain unlock should be allowed, in your opinion

I haven’t posted at all, but i have been around for quite a while to tell that money dude is offended and just trying his best to come up with the opposite way of reasonable thinking of koetje and the other dude. People here aren’t being elitists for saying “you’re new here you dont’ know shit”. New people put in theories that were already either discussed or tried out. Theory without experience is INVALID. And the top div1 and prem players know the game inside out. Then the people who have little experience start talking and they’re being told “fuck off, you have no clue” and then flame war starts. Everyone has to understand if unlocks have been discussed already for ages, someone coming up with random shit that probably was said before is like asking for a kick in the balls, people are sick of the same bs. People deny what you’re saying not because you’re new, it’s because you got little experience and gameplay to understand how unlocks would affect the game. And trust me, i’m only div4ish and still have a LOT to learn. If you think div6 has any understanding of the game you are horribly wrong. 6v6 isn’t just some organised pub. Div6 is barely a dm fest. I merced demo for a div6 team and i carried that game.

As for unlocks, i’d rather let the high players decide, but i’ll always be in favour of gunboats cause i main roamer :>.
I played a doublemix wtih whitelist off. It was fun the first 5-10 minutes but it got boring as hell seeing huntsman snipers, charging targe demomen, quickfix medic and demos with sticky jumper. Ah yes, bad opinion from me as well (probably gonna get shouted at for everything cause that’s how forums work, right?): reason why tf2 isn’t so popular is because valve is giving little to no support to comp tf2 while the NA scene, pretty much said before, has strong advertisement + a few LAN events. and here in the EU we have vanillaTV who is trying its best and gaming gear as end-of-seasson prizes. And i’m pretty sure valve promised S8-S9 medals. I can’t see them.

Ah yes, i forgot unlock topics are about flame wars. Please resume the hate on each other.

We’ve been through this before, we don’t need shitty gimmicky or useless sidegrades – yes, they may be balanced, but they have such a minor use, all it does it complicate the ruleset and encourage others to campaign to get their favourite shitty unlock allowed.

Quoted from Ghostface

[…]

Tell me more about how your div6 shitnerd insight is more valueable than, say, Phrozen’s.

I never said that, you need to stop trying to discredit me with whatever comes in to your head. If you’re that desperate then try http://tinyurl.com/3tdn4q3 (easily available on the team profiles you seem to have been stalking) we got to div 4 then I rage quit the week before the season xD

I know you’re from a third world country but that doesn’t mean you have to be ignorant. You’re not bargaining for goat milk at the market, you’re dealing with civilised western europeans!