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Quoted from Yoursillyself

Counter Strike: Source had the same issue the TF2 originally did. Everyone who came from CS 1.6 / TF expected it to be the same game with a new engine. When there was changes, all the old players complained and went back to the old game. CSS is however gaining speed slowly, as CS 1.6 loses all its old players and people stop playing. In certain parts of the world (Especially here in the UK) CSS scene is actually stronger then CS 1.6.

Who mentioned 1.6? CS:S hasn’t changed a lot in the last 7 years (not counting little cosmetic tweaks), and competitive is still growing.

EDIT: Oh fuck. Should’ve seen it coming. Trolllllllllllllllllllllled

What data?

Quoted from Yoursillyself

[…]

Fixed.

using football analogies for TF2, good one idiot
since you want me to repeat myself for some reason because you cant read my previous posts before you started repeating yourself and posting clever responses because you dont actually have an answer (lol it works both ways, who wouldve thought huh):

people dont want to change which is why theyre against ‘locks – wrong, unlocks introduce a random factor where its not needed. the metagame is not stale, nobody has mastered the game yet and there are still new tactics being developed. since were doing footie analogies, would it be plausible to allow a player to have a 100 different kind of boots with different bonuses attached to them? no.

the game will die if there will be no unlocks: completely opinionated and without proof, in fact the NA scene is smaller than the EU scene and they have more unlocks. unrelated imo but since were using unrelated and foolish statistics in our arguments, here you go… both NA and AUS are smaller than EU which is more vanilla, what up now smarty pants?
inb4 ‘WAA WAA BUT ITS COMPLETELY DIFFEREN’T.

I played COD, CS, CSS, AND QUAKE thus I know what will happen to tf2:
wrong. every scene is different, these games are completely different from TF2, same as every community and the people in it is different. every game will die in due time but no game’s death or decline is similar, and saying that is is naive. besides, neither quake nor css nor cs nor COD are dead. the COD community would’ve died quicker if not for the mod which, if im correct, only allowed like 3 weapons? yeah, proves you right doesnt it?

Quoted from Dummy

people dont want to change which is why theyre against ‘locks – wrong, unlocks introduce a random factor where its not needed. the metagame is not stale, nobody has mastered the game yet and there are still new tactics being developed. since were doing footie analogies, would it be plausible to allow a player to have a 100 different kind of boots with different bonuses attached to them? no.

How does allowing items include a random factor? That’s like saying allowing more then one tech tree in SC2 makes it more random. As long as items don’t include percentage based buffs (In which case they should be banned) all it does is increase the number of valid strats. However I will conclude that items should be more visible, so you can more clearly see the difference between a FAN and a scattergun scout, for instance.

Just because all the possible strats with vannila haven’t been discovered yet doesn’t mean we should be limiting the others. A better football analogy for your situation would be only allowing 4-4-2 due to not having explored it fully.

Also people are generally against changes to things they do, whether TF2, politics, playing football, or walking down a street.

the game will die if there will be no unlocks: completely opinionated and without proof, in fact the NA scene is smaller than the EU scene and they have more unlocks. unrelated imo but since were using unrelated and foolish statistics in our arguments, here you go… both NA and AUS are smaller than EU which is more vanilla, what up now smarty pants?
inb4 ‘WAA WAA BUT ITS COMPLETELY DIFFEREN’T.

The reason the NA scene is smaller is due to the fact that NA generally aren’t into esports. Their Quake Live scene is smaller, their CSS/CS 1.6 scene is smaller, their SC2 scene is smaller.

However making the game less like vannila will deter new players. Although changes are needed, the less you make from base play the better.

I played COD, CS, CSS, AND QUAKE thus I know what will happen to tf2:
wrong. every scene is different, these games are completely different from TF2, same as every community and the people in it is different. every game will die in due time but no game’s death or decline is similar, and saying that is is naive. besides, neither quake nor css nor cs nor COD are dead. the COD community would’ve died quicker if not for the mod which, if im correct, only allowed like 3 weapons? yeah, proves you right doesnt it?

Most esport scenes follow the same principles, most gaming communities can be compared to come extent. Sure it isn’t a 1:1 copy, but you can take the information from one and apply the principles and theory to the other.

CoD as a competitive scene is rather pathetic considering the number of players who like CoD, this is due to it being a casualized game. The mod is required and keeping it barely alive, but the mod is also the thing making it smaller then it should be Currently less then 141 teams have played a single game. The more modding you have to do to a game, the less suited to esport it is. However too much modding is always bad.

I do belive most of us didn’t wanto signup for season 9 solely because of the unlock rules, so we wanted to support ESL since we felt that they had the right rules there.. probably will be the same with ETF2L season10 if there are no change to the rules.. though after the “rebirth” of tf2, this would be really bad if it goes to that.

But yeah.. these discussions are getting kinda tiring since we have to go through the same shit everytime valve decides to add new weapons.. this been going for what? 9seasons ? Sniff.

Quoted from Dummy

[…]
this, really

+1

Who are you?

Also – his team played Division 6 last season (they won so well done to them) and teams didn’t want to play against his using that particular strategy were Division 6 teams so at the end of the day it isn’t just Prem/Div 1 teams that dislike it.

Not everyone likes unlocks, not everyone likes Vanilla (I prefer unlocks personally, they add something to the game). End of the day – play the game for fun no matter what the unlock rules are, it is more important to actually PLAY the game than to bitch about unlocks.