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Don’t mind the map, but don’t see it adding anything new or different, and that’s not really reason enough.

So we established that some people like it and some people hate it. Congrats everyone.

This thread can be used ti determine what can be improved about the map.

The point about Greg is irrelevant, on any map this can happen, he hit all of his shots and he got kills, all the credit goes to him and not the map.

The other thing this thread can do is help to determine what the next map could be, although I think that is a separate thread. Also Crasp is right when he says there needs to be a way for users and admins to communicate better.

Quoted from torden

Don’t mind the map, but don’t see it adding anything new or different, and that’s not really reason enough.

True.

Although Warmfront was made as competitive alternative to Coldfront when it was first released in the Engineer Update, iirc. Most of the changes Warmfront has to the original Coldfront (2nd closer to main door and fewer walls on last) were later patched into the stock version, so that may explain the little to no difference between Cold and Warm. :P

Even then, one of the major differences this hill the author has added near 2nd resupply is quite poorly done and doesn’t really feel like it belongs there anyway. A ramp going up to this new position would’ve been cleaner (therefore easier on the engine –> more FPS) and would’ve played slightly better, imo.

As much as I don’t mind playing edited versions of another map, turbine_pro being a good example of when it goes right, it would be nice to have some testing done before maps are introduced to the league’s pool. Prior to announcement for S9’s map-pool, Warmfront didn’t really appear to have been tested on a wide scale (like a MNM cup (like Bazillion and Snakewater were) or from another major tournament (see TF2TV’s Teamgasm Cup or ESH’s numerous one night cups where these maps saw additional playtime) at least in Europe, anyway.

Quoted from Tyranno

Wait, you seriously think “If a map allows for other classes besides my 6v6 cookiecutter thinking to be used effectively it’s a shit map for 6×6”?!

Why do you think you understand this game better than a guy who is 4 divisions higher than you and has been playing 3x longer?

Quoted from CrashSite

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Again as he said, too much is lost in the noise of idiocy and detracts from any useful comments made. Off the top of my head, a ‘fair’ poll system would be the way to go, probably team leader choice, and only those who have finished the previous season gets a vote.

Maybe only people that have actually played the maps extensively and have no emotional connections regarded to losing a pcw on it and making you cry. that are open-minded enough to accept new ideas and have enough experience at the top level so the maps flaws are exposed.

Well I guess that only leaves me.

Quoted from Arnold

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Maybe only people that have actually played the maps extensively and have no emotional connections regarded to losing a pcw on it and making you cry. that are open-minded enough to accept new ideas and have enough experience at the top level so the maps flaws are exposed.

Well I guess that only leaves me.

Well as I was saying it is hard, the other way is that you have a suggestion box, but that leads to a lot of bAdmins, this is all there fault QQ etc etc.

In regards to only Prem getting a vote it is one way to do it. I personally don’t like it cos I would rather see (perhaps naively) the community pull their heads out of their asses and act mature for 20 mins and make a group decision. Cos although I agree that Prem players have a better understanding of most of the aspects of TF2, I think that is wrong to see it as everyone else has none/almost no understanding, even in comparison.

On top of that, it doesn’t matter too much if teams don’t vote for the maps they don’t play, the most popular maps will by definition be the ones that are the best, defined and confirmed by the process. At that point, any QQ’s can’t complain as it was a majority vote.

The way to help lesser known maps to be recoganised and played, is through MNM, pixelpickup etc.

Quoted from Arnold

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Clearly you have better understanding of how to introduce new maps than I have. Pickups/MNM are only good for messing about and maybe getting a little knowledge of map layout, only maps that are included in leagues will actually be played and played enough to see if it has flaws that need adressing.

Follower was popular, obscure was popular, yukon was popular, well was popular, fastlane was popular.

Even pickups are a competitive environment, but they would just be a way to introduce them to players, who then might be temped to play them in PCW’s. I also said things like MNM and other cups will help.

If you do not like this, then AFS should become annual and only feature new maps, this would give a lot of teams a chance to play untested maps. Then feedback through AFS could be used to choose the maps until the next summer where the process is repeated, there are many things that can be tired, there is no point pointing out flaws, as every method has them, instead suggestion your own and then help making it happen.

Yes those maps were popular, so is Badlands, so is Granary. I fail to see your point. Yes opinions change and when they do, the new voting systems means that the map will get replaced.

edit for you edit:

Well I address that above, although the map has to be workable at all levels. Although I can’t think of a map that is not workable at both ends.

Quoted from Skyride

[…]

Me too. But hell will more likely freeze over.

[…]

Ye definitely, you’re totally right. Nobody 100% completely understands this game. But that’s the same with everything in the entire world, so why bother asking people who don’t really get it?

[…]

Fair point. Possibly if you weighted the votes based on divison (since div6/5 make up such a large percentage of the league) then it could work.

Div 6 can be taken with a pinch of salt, but Div 5 don’t aways get the credit they deserver, I feel and felt personally, that a lot of teams understand the game and what they need to do but suffer from lack of experience or their base instincts take over (in my case the latter, ‘Oh, shiny medic must jump him!’). I understood what I was doing was dumb and what I needed to do. I still make mistakes but I know what I should be doing.

But in large I agree with waht you say, the Prem/Div 1 should be considered more than the lower, but I THINK that I disagree with how much.