Forum
ETF2L: The problem
Created 6th March 2011 @ 14:50
Add A Reply Pages: « Previous 1 ... 7 8 9 ... 31 Next »
Quoted from Waster
The most fair thing you can do is look at how most people play their pcw’s. If people really prefer unlocks over vanilla then everybody is using unlocks in their pcw’s all the time. The fact that in 99,99% of the time people dont use unlocks at all in their pcw’s regardless of skill level, the tf2 community really prefers vanilla over unlocks. We dont even have to have polls, people already choose how they play their regular pcw’s.
I’m pretty sure 99.90% of the teams use equalizer in their pcw’s. And ofcourse medic unlocks, sandvich, cloak and dagger, ambassador and bonk on certain maps.
Quoted from steve
that wont work. its exactly the problem we have now, different teams will have a conflict of interest on what unlocks they want to be used in the game. a checkbox isnt going to allow one team to play vanilla when the other wants to use whatever they want.
team a checks no boxes (besides medic unlocks)
team b checks every other unlock that isnt banned by etf2l.“You use the unlocks you both agreed on.” this is where its flawed, the teams wont be agreeing on anything. so its back to square 1 again
Hardly. In the scenario you describe, you simply fall back on w/e etf2l have defined as default.
Example: etf2l rules are: bonk allowed, fan banned
Available checkboxes: “ban bonk” and “allow fan”
Team A checks “ban bonk” but team B does not; bonk will be allowed in this game
Team B checks “allow fan” but team A does not; fan will be banned in this game
Simples.
tl;dr the checkboxes allow you to stray from the default etf2l rules, but only if both teams agree
Last edited by Spike Himself,
See, it can work both ways yes. You could have a vanilla league, where teams can agree on unlocks instead of what we have now. Obviously I don’t prefer this way, but it could work. My main point is that ETF2L currently isn’t using that system, and I don’t see a need to change the league to go to a system that potentially has the same problems (A need for a gentlemens agreement to keep some people happy).
You would be changing the system to change the unhappy people to being happy, and the happy people to being unhappy, with the people who couldn’t care less…. still not caring less.
It’s the same sense as to why I’m raging to ESL to start allowing unlocks. If a team wants a certain unlock allowed in any of our matches, we would probably allow it (assuming it’s not something aweful like Gloves of Steel). We would be happy to play that way and also to just play by the written rules of ESL. If we didn’t want to play that way, we wouldn’t sign up to that league.
Quoted from Spike Himself
[…]
Hardly. In the scenario you describe, you simply fall back on w/e etf2l have defined as default.
Example: […]
Teams can already use something like that by putting the agreement on the match comments. The issue is that in your example teams do not want bonk allowed at all.
Quoted from Spike Himself
[…]
Hardly. In the scenario you describe, you simply fall back on w/e etf2l have defined as default.
Example: etf2l rules are: bonk allowed, fan banned
Available checkboxes: “ban bonk” and “allow fan”
Team A checks “ban bonk” but team B does not; bonk will be allowed in this game
Team B checks “allow fan” but team A does not; fan will be banned in this gameSimples.
tl;dr the checkboxes allow you to stray from the default etf2l rules, but only if both teams agree
But this is pretty much the problem the vanilla teams have.
Dignitas play Monster Munch.
Monster Munch want full ETF2L rules
Dignitas want vanilla
Therefore nothing is agreed. So we go to full ETF2L rules.
Dignitas play Power
Both teams want vanilla.
Vanilla rules are used.
(This is the gentlemen’s agreement currently in place).
This is why there is the argument on the rules. When both teams want complete opposites, it is down to the league to decide. Both teams would want the league to use their rules, because that way, they will only ever play with what they want, regardless of the other team desires.
Quoted from RaCio
Teams can already use something like that by putting the agreement on the match comments. The issue is that in your example teams do not want bonk allowed at all.
Question in that case.
If 2 teams agree on playing according to vanilla+medlock rules, and this agreement is documented on the matchpage. How will the ETF2L admin staff handle the arguement where 1 team breaks the vanilla agreement and uses say the Gunslinger.
Will the match be decided in favor of the team that stuck to the agreement or not?
Quoted from RaCio
[…]
Teams can already use something like that by putting the agreement on the match comments. The issue is that in your example teams do not want bonk allowed at all.
My example does allow for that though!
With checkboxes you can merely say yes or no. If you want to use match page comments to have an argument about which unlocks you want allowed you might as well start a thread on the forums. Oh wait..
Quoted from AcidReniX
[…] Therefore nothing is agreed. So we go to full ETF2L rules […]
As I mentioned in an earlier post; set the prem/div1/whatever ruleset to vanilla only. Simples.
Last edited by Spike Himself,
Quoted from AcidReniX
[…]
But this is pretty much the problem the vanilla teams have.
Dignitas play Monster Munch.
Monster Munch want full ETF2L rules
Dignitas want vanillaTherefore nothing is agreed. So we go to full ETF2L rules.
Dignitas play Power
Both teams want vanilla.
Vanilla rules are used.
(This is the gentlemen’s agreement currently in place).This is why there is the argument on the rules. When both teams want complete opposites, it is down to the league to decide. Both teams would want the league to use their rules, because that way, they will only ever play with what they want, regardless of the other team desires.
This ^
300 teams have so far signed up to season 9, so I guess the majority are happy.
going back to if there is ever a poll, 1 vote per registered team – so all the clan less players can’t influence a decision when they are not playing, and all the teams not competing can’t influence a league they are not competing in
If you want a vote you need to enter the league, fight from the inside not out if you want change
If your team can’t agree on what unlocks/maps they want between themselves you have bigger problems
Last edited by Tikcus,
Quoted from Tikcus
[…]
300 teams have so far signed up to season 9, so I guess the majority are happy.
Or they participate because they don’t want to dissapoint their teammates/feel like they would’ ve wasted all that time practicing if they didn’t participate.
Just because people signup doesn’t automatically mean they are happy.
ffs just put a rule in place that each team can choose to ban 2 enemy unlocks on top of the unlocks not allowed already. it might stop a bit of the serious business.
vannilla unlocks cannot be banned
The ban on these items is optional and would incur a penalty of sorts. (think up that yourself)
neither team is allowed to use the banned item
neither team can ban the same item as the other team. due to pointlessness of rule above?
Last edited by Sketch,
they are happy enough to compete or wouldn’t have signed up
Quoted from Tikcus
they are happy enough to compete or wouldn’t have signed up
last thing i heard was that the majority of prem teams did indeed not sign up
Quoted from agron
Chillaxxxxx, the teams that don’t want to play cinnamon are leaving the league.
Problem solved.
Quoting myself.
If you prefer vanilla, come and join the bunch of us at ESL.
When ESL gets a decent sized league going, you don’t have to worry about ETF2L’s view of things on any matter. LANs will want to attract as many top teams as possible and thus will apply vanilla rules on their competitions.
ETF2L’s ruleset will be as relevant as the highlander league’s.
Add A Reply Pages: « Previous 1 ... 7 8 9 ... 31 Next »
content rss