Forum

Quoted from piece

Weren’t you the one defending the Fan when it was clearly overpowered and annoying beyond any believe?
Pretty much trying to reason the rest of the world with the exact same arguments?
Sounds obsolete to me.

The FaN was never overpowered. It isn’t now, and it wasn’t back then. I have never found the FaN annoying, but I would consider it to be ‘less annoying’ now.

Nothing has changed, except for my own willingness to compramise, which is why I rarely bring it up. Not only that, but I know nothing I will say, will get ETF2L to reverse their decision once it was banned, so there was no point in arguing it further than what was said back then.

If I was writing a list of unlocks, that I felt improved the game, the FaN would be listed as one of them. The additional scout playstyle and the added movement capabilities do enhance the game.

If you think it’s overpowered, you are either a dumb scout who doesn’t know how to play against anything other than running at the enemy team’s scout in a race to see who can m1 the most accurately, or you are a medic who is complaining that a scout can 2 shot you (which they can allready, except they have a slightly easier time aiming it, at the risk of missing a shot and being a fish out of water).

If you need some hints on how to play against a FaN scout… speak to Shintaz. When I was running FaN, I simply couldn’t ever engage him because I could never get into a position that favoured the FaN scout, because he wasn’t dumb enough to move into one of them.

Not that it matters as it is banned, but saying it was overpowered is just jumping on the bandwagon of the people who simply couldn’t play against it, and didn’t want to use it themselves (because they were bad with it), which I find incredibly dumb. If there was an enemy FaN scout in the game, I actually preffered to play scattergun against them, and it was very easy to kill them).

Now get back on topic.

Cool, Shintaz never went around a corner. Advanced tf2 right there.

Quoted from Koeitje

Cool, Shintaz never went around a corner. Advanced tf2 right there.

The principle is that if the FaN scout has somewhere to hide for the duration of his reloads, he’s in a pretty good position. If the FaN scout is also at close range for his first shot, he’s in an even better position.

Too many top scouts will want to simply run towards the enemy scout shooting their scattergun. All the FaN scout needed to do was delay the first shot until they are close, and then let off two more powerful hits. I was laughing at how easy FaN was against some players, not because of the gun, but because of how dumb they were at engaging it. It was mostly the top scouts who were the easiest to play against, because they are so confident in their aim, they would constantly move towards you trying to do increased damage per shot, without knowing it’s putting them in a bad position.

When you fight soldiers, you realise that being at point blank range puts the advantage in the soldier’s hands, but at a certain distance, the fight starts to favour the scout (medic does swing this back to the soldier). The same was very much true with the FaN, but people still decided to treat a FaN scout like a scattergun scout.

It’s not just about engaging a FaN scout around a corner. There were small tactics you could use to beat a FaN scout in close quarters. The damage output of the two guns are still resonably similar over two shots, but if you can survive the initial two shots, quite often it was possible to do a quick charge and make sure your third shot crippled him, and then retreat to an obstical (so you have got 3 shots on him, he only has 2 on you).

I play with scattergun now, and I still try to use the same style of play that I played with the FaN. It’s less effective, but I don’t find the game any harder, infact, DM is much much easier, it’s just sneak attacks and key picks that might have benefitted from the FaN a bit… certainly not what I would consider to be overpowered.

I remember suggesting valve to improve the FaN on the old beta forums, but Moose and some other div1 players claimed the weapon was balanced fine.

Fan lets shit players be better. It’s peak isn’t as high as the scatter but it’s certainly a lot easier to reach. Thinking anything else is merely clutching at the straws of some lost notion of pride for one’s accomplishments with the fan.

Quoted from kaidus

Fan lets shit players be better. It’s peak isn’t as high as the scatter but it’s certainly a lot easier to reach. Thinking anything else is merely clutching at the straws of some lost notion of pride for one’s accomplishments with the fan.

So you have a weapon that is easier to use… but less effective at higher levels.
And this is imbalanced? I would consider this to be a good trade off. (btw, I do disagree, but i’ll just go with it to save us some time).

I guess the huntsman is imbalanced too then.
Oh and I guess people should run the Ambassador over the regular spy gun… since it’s harder to use and we want everything in this game to have a really high skill cap.

TDH to RPG is the same as
Scattergun to FaN.

RPG would be easier to use for a bad player, but TDH has much more potential for a high skilled player. Give a lowbie the TDH and they will not do half as good as they would with the RPG.

Talking about skill caps defining if an unlock should be banned or not is very dumb when there are allready reverses of that example that exist in the game, which you too want banned.

Quoted from AcidReniX

[…]
Talking about skill caps defining if an unlock should be banned or not is very dumb when there are allready reverses of that example that exist in the game, which you too want banned.

These words that you put into my mouth don’t taste very nice.

I just remembered why I stopped having this argument.

Quoted from TopGear

With regards to the unlocks issue, it would appear that no matter what decision is reached not everyone will be happy with it, everyone knows that once a comprimise is agreed both sides never really get what they want.

But what we should be asking isnt what unlocks should be allowed in the competitive tf2 scene but rather what is the future of competitive tf2. Are we going to be doing the same old vanilla tf2 forever or do we embrace the new features added to the game and change the dynamic of tf2. Do we want to see mini sentries poping up all over the place ? Do we want to see people pushing with a buff banner charge ? Do you want to attempt a push on last cap vs 2 wrangler sentries ?

Lets rememeber that competitive tf2 is a game that is supposed to be fun to play, yet still allows us to show off our skills. Vanilla tf2 is quite balanced, however could tf2 be better, more fun or more balanced with the new features added ? Possibly.

From what I have observed, the solution to this problem is either stick with vanilla or integrate new features / game dynamics into competitive tf2. Personally I dont mind either way, but if the latter is decided upon. I would like to see all unlocks adhere to a ruleset of the following:

NO weapon/unlock should be allowed into competitive tf2 that either

a: Gives a class a significant advantage over another class
b: Allows a weapon to 1 shot kill another player from full health unless via a critial hit/ headshot or backstab
c: Gives a class a buff that makes the class extremly hard / impossible to kill
d: Would result in a negative impact on gameplay

The only other option is to run 2 leagues with different rules.

So like, every unlock except the fish, which is awesome and should replace the bat anyway.

On a serious note, one unlock which comes to mind which is actually a decent side grade to it’s alternative is the flaregun, can’t think of many others.