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Well basically with MeM folding , i was expecting the league to cancel all the games played by MeM this season , but it seems like because they played 5 of their 7 games , the last 2 teams who should have played them , will get Default wins

And imo it’s not fair , since MeM team had nothing to do (or not much at least) with the original team who started the League (and had at least 4 differents members, with zerox , wlv phl darn leaving the original team etc) , basically we lost the league because of the calendar…ETF2L should solve that problem for next season because having a different winner just because of stupid rules + the calendar , it’s totally BULLSHIT..

F2 told me almost the same happened in the D2a , with Ret renaming to laukaus and then folding or giving default wins so it’s a main problem .

i expect some reactions , and people flamming me too .

Edit, that didn’t make sense.

The way I see it is.. why should four teams be punished because you lost to TLR on Well? That one map is all that would change by forcing Memento to drop all of their games. Four teams would be adversely affected, which is unfair considering it wasn’t their fault you lost Well vs TLR.

If you had beaten them, this post wouldn’t have been made.

Besides Mick, you regularly profess that ETF2L isn’t even remotely important, so why does it bother you?

I think the point he is trying to make, is that if 4K was sheduled to play against TLR at the end of the season, instead of the start, they would have got a default win and got 6 points. He’s saying the 2 teams at the end automatically get those 6 points simply because of their position in the calenda.

If you ignor the fact that it was TLR, and slap a different name in there.

Let’s say TCM were the team that dropped, with 2 games to spare. Those 2 games were against TFPortal and crack clan.

All the teams that lost to TCM earlier in the season would have a worse result against TCM than TFP and CC would have, simply because their match was scheduled later. Let’s say TCM would normally beat Crack Clan in a match. Because Crack clan’s match was scheduled later, they actually gained something from a game they would have normally lost.

On the otherside of the argument, and back to MeMento, this only really effects k1ck and crack. Since crack can’t win the league, and won’t be relagated, its not a problem, however, k1ck could potentially win the league, based entirely off of this default win (had 4Kings played later in the calender (and got a default), the results of k1ck and TLR/MeMento wouldn’t play a role)

Personally I think all points should be dropped throughout the season, but at the same time, I really couldn’t care lol. + the league should stick to it’s rules for the current season, and rule updates can be discussed for the next season. It’s a bit ‘ooer’ to change them mid season.

There are two issues.

One issue is that a team of a certain skill folds and gets replaced by another team of a different skill (but staying in the same division). This is annoying because either a team that might not be division 1 ends up playing in division 1 because they have a few members from the old team they replace – or if a division 1 team and a division 2 team fold making a new clan that start playing in div2 – this obviously fucks up the balancing of the divisions.

The second issue is when a clan folds, their results should either be removed or the remaining matches should be defaulted to their opponents – it’s important to notice that the choice between those two possibilities actually can decide which clan that finishes number one in the division.

The first issue occurs because etf2l wants to have as few “Dropped” teams as possible and also because they want to give new teams the delight of playing in their league. But it is really annoying for the teams in the division where it happens. Either you suddenly got a much tougher opponent, or you played against a tough team and lost a map, and that team is replaced by a weaker team that will lose the rest of its matches giving the other teams a huge advantage. Maybe there should be a rule that forbid any new teams to join the league after week1?

The second issue is the choice between removing all results or giving default wins. The “default win” solution does indeed cause a calendar problem – I think we all can agree that it shouldn’t be an advantage to play against a clan in a certain week (ie. if you play against a clan in week 3 or 8 shouldn’t give one clan an advantage). But with the “default win” rule it certainly is an advantage to play against a clan in week 9 because you can be lucky to get a default win if they fold a couple of weeks before the match (like k1ck & cc got default wins by MeM, and Druidz & panache got default wins by laukaus (regardless of whether they have officially folded or not)). It seems weird and unfair.

I haven’t really decided if I think these rules are wrong – ie. I’m not sure if I would want the rules changed, but it would be interesting to hear some suggestions to fix the aforementioned problems.

/agree with Dunc

Would you *really* want to Win Div1 on a technicality anyway, Mick?

It baffles me that this is even an issue. Why on earth has it been considered justified that teams be able to earn victories through different means from one another? That entirely undermines the purpose of a league. People play in leagues as everyone is on the same playing field. Everyone plays everyone, the winners take home the points. If everyone can not play a particular team, then no one should. It really is as simple as that. This is the essence that underpins the concept of a league.

I didn’t bother to read the thread but I have 2 things to say.

1. Mick is “not interested if they win or not win ETF2L”
2. Maybe the rule should be changed, yes, but not at this point of the season. Maybe the staff should consider about a rule change for the next season? Even though, the rule at its current state is ~okayish.

*adds to list of things to work out for Season4*