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I like the ideas in the end. Also, a couple of mine:
-reducing damage to airborn enemies;
-reducing the knockback to about… 0? when the enemy is airborn?

I will also add points by quoting myself from a Resupply.eu debate (Warning: TL;DR inc):

FAN
Attack interval: 0.33
Reload: 1.64
Point-blank damage: 113

Scattergun
Attack interval: 0.64
Reload: 0.76
Point-blank damage: 103

The FAN is not an alternative to the Scattergun. It’s a weapon that excels in certain situations. The drawback of the FAN isn’t really just the reload, as during long fights where Scattergun scouts fire more than 6 shots, the downtime of both the FAN and scattergun scouts will be roughly the same (as the reload ratio is (2*0.76 = 1.52 sec for 2 scattergun shots reloaded, so 1.52/1.64) 0.93. There is some vulnerability associated with the fact that while reloaded you are not a threat and thus allowing people ~1.5 sec window to attack you, however this can also be considered a benefit as you can hide for this period of time while recuperating and then unleash an additional burst. One of the drawbacks is limited movement during some instances, where you can’t attack while dropping or jumping (for instance jumping onto/around train on badlands mid, or jumping to spire) as it would remove you from reaching your destination and make you exceedingly easy to hit. It makes up for these circumstancial drawbacks by granting killingpower, however, I believe that the form in which this killingpower is given is too severe, as it just lowers the requirement for achieving the same result as a good scattergun scout (and if a good scout uses it it’s more consistent) and also allowing a scout to employ clever tactics to gain an edge (both through hit-and-run and through movement techniques allowed by the FAN jump), so it adds to survivability and an element of surprise at times when you come from unexpected angles.

But including this, and in addition, there are times when on paper the FAN is just too superior to a scattergun scout, and while I’ll present ideal scenarios for the purpose of eliminating variables in order to prove a point, I’ll also present additional factors present in more realistic scenarios. It could maybe also be worth noting that due to the nature of shotgun spread, the FAN has, probabilistically, higher damage at any range. This is because the spread is the same, yet it has one additional pellet, and so one missed pellet for FAN and one for scatter, the FAN will still have greater damage, as the spread is exactly the same within the exact same area, but it has one more pellet that hits inside that area.

Scenario 1
If you have two scouts of perfect skill, scout A with FAN and scout B with Scattergun crossing a corner facing each other. Both see each other at the exact same time and fire at the exact same time. Scout B will be sent airborne, into an easy arc (or just lifted straight up from the ground). Scout A will then have 0.31 seconds where Scout B can do nothing to harm Scout A, while Scout A has the potential to fire a 113 damage shot at Scout B. In this ideal situation, obviously Scout A will never stand a chance nor gain an opportunity to kill Scout A.

More realistically, the only thing Scout B can do is use his double-jump instantly after being shot and hope Scout A misses. This is more or less the only difference – whether Scout B lives or dies depends entirely upon Scout A’s ability and not on Scout B. If Scout A misses, Scout B will live, if he doesn’t, he will not.
From experience I can add the double-jump trick generally does not work very well, and from a mere numerical point of view, assuming ordinary human reaction speed of 0.2 sec and FAN firing rate of 0.33, the mid-air scout will have about 0.12 sec of double-jump before the FAN scout can fire again, which is not enough to disappear from harm’s way, and then again, it also just depends on the ability of the scout even if it was.
Additional factors in a realistic situation is that while mid-air, scout B will have to adjust his aim to compensate for the knockback, and will be unable to dodge or do ‘trick’ maneuvers to outwit his opponent, whereas Scout A can still dodge just as effectively, and does not need to compensate, and therefore hold most of the advantages. Additionally, it is more difficult for Scout B to chase A, as it will take some milliseconds before he lands, and he will then also have to accelerate in order to attain B’s speed if he already begins retreating after delivering his load.

Scenario 2
Imagine the two same scouts, A and B. Scout A, with FAN, is standing still facing away from B. B sneaks up on A, and fires once in his back, delivering a meatshot. Assuming ordinary human reaction speed to be ~0.2 sec, A will take 0.2 sec to react and turn around and fire at scout B, there will be 0.76-0.2=0.56 sec left before B’s scattergun is cooled down and he can fire again, whereas A’s cooldown from this instant will only be 0.33 sec, meaning he has a 0.56-0.33=0.23 sec lead where A again holds all the power. This number is somewhat misleading, as he will most likely use some milliseconds more to orient himself and aim after turning, so for the sake of the argument let us say a 0.08 sec advantage remains (as I provided a generous 0.15 sec time for turning and aiming after detecting danger).

More realistically, after A has reacted, the tide is turned instantly with A holding all the advantages. However, it is not a fair assumption to make that A would instantly meatshot B, but as long as he graces him with ~40 damage shot, which is fairly reasonable as it is only about 35% of the max damage and assuming the scout is of decent skill, scout B will become airborne and thus the same situation as in Scenario 1 applies, where scout B’s survival depends on A’s performance and only on A’s performance. The second shot only needs be 85 damage, which is fairly reasonable for a close-range FAN second shot at an airborne target. In this situation, there is very little B can do even if he gets the first shot in.

My point is just that while I do enjoy new tactics/weapons being added for the game, I also think that everyone who played it before enjoyed it a lot before FAN was added, whereas some do not enjoy it nearly as much with FAN added (roughly about half the community preferred the game without it, from the given poll, and I think adding something when half of the community does not like the addition, and the other hand obviously liked the game before the addition is a bit lollerskates), as I do think some of its strengths are too exaggerated. I do not enjoy playing with or against it; I don’t mind when people do, as it is allowed by the rules and that is perfectly okay.

In order to also illustrate that during any fight where the Scattergun scout has to fire more than 6 shots and reload, the damage output is similar, or depending on the duration, favoring FAN in long fights. This can be seen from the trend that obviously DPS decreases over time, but this hits the scattergun user significantly more, PARTICULARLY if he fires in-between reloading shots and does not fully exploit the feature of an initial reload time (0.76) and then additional reload (0.56).

SCATTER
Assumed damage per shot: 104
Max DPS after 10 seconds (12 shots): 124.8
6 shots – 3.2 (only 5 attack intervals counted due to first being instant, attack interval 0.64)
Full reload – 3.56 (total: 6.76)
6 shots – 3.2 (total: 10.6)

FAN
Assumed damage per shot: 113
Max DPS after 10 seconds (11 shots): 124.3
2 shots – 0.33
Full reload – 1.64
Fire + reload = 0.33 + 1.64 = 1.97 10/5 = 2, so we can multiply this by 5, and then have 0.15 secs unaccounted for, which is time for an additional shot fired, so total shots fired is 11: 11*113/10=124.3

After 15 seconds.

SCATTER
4.6-3.56 (as previous calculation of 10 secs had a surplus of 0.6 sec)
1.44=2 shots
2*104=208
Damage at 10 seconds + Damage 5 seconds after / total time = Total DPS after 15 secs
1248 + 208 / 15 = 97.1

FAN
Firing an additional shot leaves us at
5-0.18=4.82
Reload fully = 4.82-1.64=3.18
Fire + reload = 3.18-1.97 = 1.21
2 more shots = 1.21-0.33
Then 0.88 of reload.
Total no. of shots: 5
Damage at 10 sec + damage 5 sec after / total time = total DPS
1243 + 565 / 15 = 120.5 DPS

After 20 seconds

SCATTER
5-0.24=4.76 for 4 more shots
4.76-4*0.64=2.2
Damage done in this period = 4*104=416
Then enough time to reload 4 shots (out of 6).
Damage done at 15 sec period + Damage 5 sec after / total time = Total DPS after 20 secs
1456 + 416 / 20 = 93.6 damage per second

FAN
5-0.76=4.24
2x Fire + reload = 4.24-2(1.97)=0.3
So time for one additional shot
Total shots: 5
Damage at 15 sec + damage 5 sec after / total time = total DPS
1808 + 565 = 118.6 DPS

However, it should also be added that this assumes the Scattergun scout FULLY reloads his clip before firing again, as the first reload is 0.76 sec whereas every additional reload is only 0.56, and that realistically most scouts do not run behind train on badlands mid and fully reload before going out again, while FAN scouts will provide constant damage.

In closing, one could say that the ‘scenarios’ presented aren’t realistic. While I can agree they are not realistic for the majority of a 6v6 match, I do believe scout vs. scout encounters in 6v6 WHERE A KILL IS MADE can largely be generalized into this format, where the scattergun scout will be at the mercy of the FAN scout’s ability to hit an airborne target. The FAN’s largest weakness is that you during the time it takes to fire 6 scattergun shots, the FAN will not have done an equal amount of damage, as can be seen from this:

In 3.2 secs a scattergun scout has fired 6 shots, whereas a FAN scout will have fired 4.
6*103=618
4*113=452
This is obviously the FAN’s greatest weakness, but the conditions for this weakness to be exploited would be placing 2 scouts at mid range, with no objects to hide behind and no option to retreat. Generally in TF2, when two enemies are at mid-range from one another they will have viable escape routes and burst-damage isn’t severe enough to kill a fleeing enemy fast enough, and so there are not that many situations where this will be open to exploitation, as most scout v. scout kills happen mid-close range, and not from, say, peeking from badlands house to resup just shooting back and forth.

This is my opinion on the matter.

However. To add to the discussion of fixes, I reckon it’s the knockback in conjunction with rate of fire and its damage that makes it so powerful, instead of just a single perk. The knockback could stay, but only if the rate of fire was lowered, as the knockback makes it easier to hit, but I think ‘easier to hit’ ALONG with ‘fires faster’ is a bit of a stretch. I think it’s fine to add a weapon that’s an alternative to those who cannot aim as well, but it should not be potentially stronger than it, either, but allow different options of approach, such as the FAN jump, allowing a variety of unexpected attack angles.

But I do think the damage and rate of fire is more difficult to balance, particularly the latter, as it will still end up with a situation such as in my analysis, where an outcome depends (almost) entirely on the other player’s ability, which is why I’m generally very opposed to the firing rate of anything being changed.

2 shots, no knock back, same movement (or old movement, whichever was better).

2 shots, no knock back, same movement (or old movement, whichever was better).

or BaN the FaN please :D

ban

just ban it

ban