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Mouse Grip

Created 8th May 2009 @ 09:39

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eoN^

Personally for tracking i prefer low sensitivity (not to low) kinda mid sensitivity to be honest, like in COD4 i use about 1000DPI at 2ingame which is just perfect for tracking opponents and also is high enough to twitch etc (which with cod4 is rather important alot of the time)

Depch

claw! high sens

KOVACS

“The muscle in your forearm is much more accurate than the muscles in your wrist.”

I entirely disagree, I’m not saying you’re wrong but i very much doubt that you can prove you are right. Where is there evidence to support this?

I’ll hasten to add that there IS factual evidence that movements by tendons are far more controlled, consistent and less liable to fatigue than those by muscles. Wrist movements are predominantly controlled by tendons, and finger movements are entirely controlled by tendons (since we have no muscle structure in our fingers). This explains why high sensitivity players incorporate a claw style grip to make best use of the fingers and also the wrist.

“Also, you can never be as accurate with high sens as low sens, that is just simple logic. Where that limit lies is of course is a different matter.”

Again I disagree, although not entirely on this point but only because your second sentence here is somewhat of a saving grace. A decade ago, this comment would be true, back when everyone was using far less impressive/accurate hardware for gaming but it’s just not the case anymore.

There are indeed limits on accuracy, which vary widely from person to person, but as an example, the most successful Quake 3 player of 2008 (Cypherrr) AND the 3rd most, his teammate (av3k) play with high sensitivity between 12cm-15cm/360 and both are regarded by the Quake community at large as two of the best aimers the game has ever seen.

The vast majority of other top Quake players use sensitivity’s in the region of 15-25cm/360, all-be-it in some cases with minimal mouse acceleration. To this I’d expect you to reply, well its Quake, its fast paced, the game favors higher sensitivity and doesn’t demand pin-point accuracy.

The cold hard facts however are that even if you look at games such as CS 1.6 and Source, both of which are renowned for players that use ridiculously low sensitivity (40-60cm/360, or even /180!!!) you’ll find that a considerable number of the top players/aimers in both of these games use high sensitivity, in the region of 18-25cm/360. Personally, I reckon the threshold for the ability of most people to aim with pinpoint accuracy lies within this range.

Without a shadow of a doubt, hitscan/tracking style aim is far easier using high sensitivity than it is with low. I can attest to this myself, as actually I used to be a low sensitivity player, 44cm/360 to be precise, for several years up until around Christmas time last year, when I got given a Razer eXactmat as a present and decided I may as well try to make use of it. I realized the benefits of a higher sensitivity extremely quickly, as well as the drawbacks, which I’ll leave you to discuss amongst yourselves. :D

Within a week, my average accuracy in Quake had increased by over 10% (that’s a huge difference FYI, most players aim between 25-35 accuracy) which I’ve subsequently improved on steadily since then. Most of that increase came from the lightning gun, which for the noobs out there who don’t know any better, is a pure hitscan/tracking weapon. Prior to that, my accuracy had been totally stagnant for over 2 months spanning just over 150 matches.

From my personal experience playing with both low and high sensitivity, the benefits of higher sensitivity substantially outweigh the drawbacks, and the drawbacks can all be overcome. Currently I use a sensitivity equating to almost exactly 18cm/360, and after the first week of getting used to it, my accuracy in stereotypically low-sensitivity games such as CS:S has if anything, improved. I can still jump on a random DM server and score 5:1 or 6:1 kpd over a few hundred kills, the same way I did using 44cm/360, but with less effort, less restricted aim and movement.

“Also, any argument that its difficult to turn around is in my eyes totally flawed, if I need to turn around 180 degrees I have already made a stupid mistake, so fix the mistake where you allowed someone to be behind you before you fix your ability to turn around!”

Agreeable, depending on the game you’re talking about. Regardless, there will still always be occasional situations where an opponent does come from directly behind, or near enough, and in those circumstances the benefits of totally unrestricted and most importantly, quick aim come into their own. It is debatable that low sensitivity isn’t restrictive in terms of aiming across large distances (e.g. big turns, air shots) or to movement, since there are players like Stealthy and yourself (NoaM) who seem to manage very well despite the low sensitivity, but for me, changing to higher sensitivity seems like it has totally unrestricted me in both movement and aim, despite playing with low sensitivity for several years prior.

Oh and almost forgot, I use a claw-style grip on the mouse, although not particularly extreme, more of a hybrid between claw and palm style, partly due to the way my hand naturally sits on this mouse (Deathadder). After looking at that razerzone example of claw grip, it’s worth saying that in my case my knuckles are ALWAYS raised higher than any part of my fingers. I only use my pinky finger to grip the mouse on the right side, ring finger for right click and middle finger hovers around/over the scroll wheel. My grip is very light, and was the same when I was using low sensitivity. Both my thumb and pinky fingers constantly touch the mousemat.

I also have my mouse/keyboard setup at the edge of my desk, and sit quite high with a good posture so only my wrist rests on the desk, which personally I found to be less restrictive, allowing more freedom of aim, particularly on the vertical axis.

Also /agree with everything berserkinggod said in his post. Hopefully at least one person will find this somewhat insightful.

One thing’s for sure, it’s way less effort!!

WOW-MEGA-ESSAY-RANT-STYLE-DISCUSSION-FORUM-POST-THINGY-END

FML 7am:( Bed-time.

kEvNx

.#mtf

ingame sens 3 2000dpi, sometimes i’m using my whole mousepad with lowsens of 0.7

ilike2spin

RLM

lol KOVACS epic post

bam wizzle

low sens lefthanded claw/fingertip grip!

toasty.

PHX

Ha ha I love this thread we are so nerdy discussing at length our ‘mouse grips’, I actually find it really interesting.:D :D

For me – TF2 was the first fps I ever played (no I’m not 13 I just only got a pc and started gaming in recent years).

I used a logitech g5 for about a year. Its a good mouse, but it made my hand do all sorts of weird things. Playing demo (imo) is the most ‘mouse intensive’ class. You are always reloading, doing the ‘quick sticky det’ double tap, switching weapons etc. edit – Ok a low sens scout moves his arm more but the demo uses his fingers more (?)

My fingers would get pins and needles and lose circulation. In the 20 sec respawn time I would be flexing/stretching my hand.

I switched to the razer death adder and although its lower dpi, my hand is never, ever is un comfortable and I can play for hours non stop.

I realise this sounds like some lame marketing or some thing but one of the other phx guys linked me to the razer site and it got me thinking. Grip is all important, thats the only reason I bought the DA. :)

Dpi is bull shit imo, I can’t think of any situation you need the highest settings?

Bun

GM

I use the Palm while browsing the web and so on, but ingame I use the Fingertip (according to razers pictures).

Zap

I use a touchscreen :P

Anathema

Palm most of the time because it’s comfy, fingertip while playing.
I’m pretty high sens, basically only use my fingers to move the mouse.

appz

wMiC?

google for aerobic / anaerobic white and red fiber muscle movements, how the muscles are connected in the arm, health and safety ergonomic work station setups and come to your own conclusions :p

I’ll hasten to add that there IS factual evidence that movements by tendons are far more controlled

tendons dont move on their own …

Norrland3000

Exactly, touchscreen och touchpad on a laptop. I mean how hard can it be with a real computer mouse?!

I must be so freaking skilled!

N/A

RaWr ::

Razer did a really interesting article on this actually – http://www2.razerzone.com/MouseGuide/html/palmgrip.php

It has different ‘proffesional’ gamers hand grips and why they prefer it etc.. Very interesting read. Personally I use the fingertip grip :)

GibbZ

WOOOOO!


“Also, you can never be as accurate with high sens as low sens, that is just simple logic. Where that limit lies is of course is a different matter.”

Again I disagree, although not entirely on this point but only because your second sentence here is somewhat of a saving grace. A decade ago, this comment would be true, back when everyone was using far less impressive/accurate hardware for gaming but it’s just not the case anymore. ”

If you actually read what he said, then you will realise, actually, KOVACS, that YOU are wrong. “Also, you can never be AS accurate with high sens as low sens” The key word being AS. It’s completely true. With a lower sense you move less pixels per CM of movement. Less pixels = more accuracy.

I’m not disagreeing that you can’t get good accuracy with a highsense. Because you can, but still, you will never be AS accurate.

You also have to take into account the player speeds of the class. Hitscan requires strafe/movement aiming too, and I know (not so much in this game) that tracking is very much based on strafe aiming. However I think this is why low sense is beneficial as you can rely less on strafing especially for when you get stuck/cornered and you have limited space.

I personally use about 38cm/360 and I think it’s great for scouting.
I would however consider raising my sense to about 34cm/360 if I was planning to fulltime solly/demo as it would help with movement and flick shots (required to save the medic).

At the end of the day I’ve seen players use really low sense and aimbot and I’ve seen players also use really high senses and aimbot. It’s all practice, preferance, and style.

KOVACS

No Gibbz, just no. CBA explaining it again, because its in that monster of a post before.

Strafe aiming is not necessary, not even remotely for hitscan/tracking aim, its simply the easiest way to assist aim at any sensitivity, but it is extremely predictable to play against when someone predominantly aims with movement to assist where they are aiming.

What I mean by that is when a player is making bigger adjustments to aim by strafing than simply moving the mouse, which seems to be what you are suggesting. In my experience, this happens to most players when they are either using too high a sensitivity which they can’t control accurately without movement assisting, or too low a sensitivity which forces the player to compensate for the fact he will be disadvantaged if he lets the opponent get too close or around/over him causing him to track awkwardly or pause to reposition the mouse.

You also imply that this is necessary to aim well with high sensitivity but this is only the case when you go past your own limit for accurate mouse control and force yourself to compensate using movement.

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