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Haunter, seems you’ve missed a lot. This is far from the first time this discussion has been the hot topic. :)

Excellent post Arx. Summed it up perfectly.

Mole this has fuck all to do with ego. I don’t even know how you can say that. Maybe the way in which Riemu has gone about things is a bit egotistical, but asking for a one demo limit isn’t. I have no idea how it could be.

To repeat – IMO one demoman limit wouldn’t do anything other than make games more enjoyable. Who exactly will it “hurt”? The only clans that would be hurt by this change are division one clans that gear up to play two demomen regularly – and as people have mentioned, there is no such clan. It’ll just stop badlands and turbine from becoming bore-fest two demo “tactical” maps. It isn’t tactics, that’s utter bs.

medic limit 1 – demoman limit 1 – class limit 2 <- thats how it should be, since the other limits are fine.

I agree that it’s hard to face 2 demos as heavy, of course it is, it’s supposed to be that way. Since this is a classbased game with tactical play in mind, I don’t see any problem with it.

Having a hard time with the enemies hwg? Switch to 2x demo and take advantage of it. Feel that what you need is to take down the enemies medic? Switch to a spy or sniper and take him out. They’re just a few examples of how to create an advantage.

Same goes for countering 2x demo, change your heavy for a soldier and take an advantage of that, or send your scouts to deal with them.

In the beginning of TF2, most clans pretty much agreed what kind of setups to use, and there wasn’t much variety. However, nowadays teams have gotten a lot better and alternative tactics like taking in the spy or sniper, and the case with 2x demo is getting a much bigger part in TF2. Isn’t that how it was meant to be? I’d even like to see even more variety than we have today, and that’s what we are heading for unless we start limiting ourselves.

Of course, I don’t really like the idea of meeting a team using 2x demo, engi, hwg def on 2fort and that keeps staying in their base aiming for a tie. However, I don’t see that a lot of teams are doing those things (especially the top teams that this proposal is ment for). And if someone did this anyway, that’s just something I’ll live with and keep away from playing them in pcw and most likely I’ll only have to do with them on those map where it’s doable every third month or so.

I believe that once we start doing more limits, other proposals of more limits is more likely to come to light, and the only thing that will come out of that is probably prevent the tatical growth of TF2 and go for more linear setups.

Clans that use 2demomen regular will probably lose out on pcw’s with other teams imo..

but i agree with weqo we should be able to adjust our tactics depending on the situation…

I must say haunter we (animate) used 2 demomen very often in our bid to win div2 on maps like turbine.. sometimes it is needed.. and like everyone said other teams should adjust there tactics to counter..

why inforce more limits on a tactical game it’s fine how it is..

Although if* in the future more clans start to use 2 demomen and it starts to ruin gameplay in anyway we can have a vote then??

not point in fixing something that isnt broken!!!

and i must come to riemu’s defence a little because everyone is questioning he’s reasons for these limit’s but i can say that if 4K decided to play ryb and hymzi as demomen your all gonna lose :P

:D

It’s not like 4k never used hymzi and ryb for pcw. And I didn’t see them get better because of it. Some maps we lost and some maps we won, just like it normally is, didnt’ change the result.

Great post weqo. I definately agree that this is meant to be a tactical game, and we shouldnt limit what everyone is allowed to play. There are counters.

DCSB has played two demomen in the past and still lost. At the same time we have played against 2 demomen and still won, even if it did make the game a little less high scoring. it just meant we had to change our tactics and work a little harder for it.

If there is Div1 teams like excello that really dont have alot of problem playing vs both ryb and hymzi and it not changing alot to the results, I dont see it getting alot harder than that unless the teams are already unbalanced.

Agron, great idea. There is nothing stopping teams agreeing to limit to 1 demoman for that game if both want to.